Michael Binger, who oversees $6.5 billion in assets, shares essential investment strategies to navigate today’s market risks. From inflation concerns and recession threats to the potential impact of election outcomes, Binger offers insights into balancing growth and protection in your portfolio. Learn why he believes in a balanced 60/40 investment approach, his take on international markets like China and Brazil, and the importance of separating politics from financial planning. Whether you’re preparing for retirement or looking to secure your wealth, this conversation provides actionable advice for uncertain economic times
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Michael Binger 0:00
I think the biggest risk to the market today is that the soft landing evaporates, inflation comes back, and we go into a recession. Economically, this tech run is very different than 2001 I mean, back then. I mean, valuations were ridiculous. You’re going to be dealing with big numbers and big trades and a lot of dollars, and don’t ever lose sight that all of those dollars came from someone who worked very hard, probably for their whole life, to save that up and trust you with it.
Anthony Scaramucci 0:37
Hi and welcome to speak up. I’m Anthony Scaramucci, your host and our guest today is a good friend. Michael Binger, Michael, welcome to speak up. Thanks for joining us. But before you speak on, speak up. Let’s talk a little bit about you. You’re the president of gradient investments. You have extensive experience working directly with financial advisors in designing and actively managing portfolios. You’ve also successfully invested in numerous market and economic cycles, which we’re going to talk about. And I’m very grateful for you joining I want to start right there. Why the hell did you get into this for a living? Michael, I did it because I’m a greedy bastard. Let’s just put it all out on the table. I grew up in a blue collar family. I wanted to get rich. Wall Street was 22 miles away. I said, that’s where I’m going to go to try to find my fortune in Destiny. What happened to you, sir?
Michael Binger 1:32
Okay, well, you know, I went to college. I went to business school at the University of Minnesota. Didn’t really know what I wanted to do, but my father was in the investment business. He was an institutional bond broker for a company called Kidder Peabody. You remember kidder?
Anthony Scaramucci 1:47
I do. I remember Kidder quite well. I remember when it was owned by General Electric.
Michael Binger 1:52
We were just talking about the other Kidder Peabody. More from kidder. It was sold to GE. I it was first sold to Payne Weber, then GE then it was spun out as Paine Weber, then it was bought by UBS. So that’s what resides now. But he was a bond broker. So, you know, I grew up around the finance industry and more the investment side. You know, my father was on the sales side, but I wanted to be on the buy side, so he kind of gave me some direction, which I’m, you know, really, really grateful for you 34 years later. But he said, you know, get on the buy side. You know, I know a nice little company here in Minneapolis called Lutheran Brotherhood, which is a, you know, at that time was a fortune 500 financial services company. Today they’re thriving. But, you know, I just went into, you know, I got an interview there. He set me up with an interview. I really didn’t know a lot about the market, but I I walked up and tell you a little story here that I don’t like to tell a lot of people, but I had my interview. I went up there, and the fellow who was interviewing me came up. We were walking back, and he turned around, he asked me, and he said, Mike, have you seen what the market’s doing today? And I said, No, what’s it doing? He spat out some number. I had no idea what it meant. I didn’t really follow the market that close, but I knew he’s excited. So I said, Wow, big number. And he turned around, he goes, like, do you follow the market? And I said, every day. And after that, our interview went, well, they called me back, you know, I that’s where I got my start, and I’ve been doing it ever since.
Anthony Scaramucci 3:21
I mean, this is a phenomenal growth story, though. Gradient, you went from $200 million to 6 billion in AUM under your watch. Tell us about the culture at gradient. Tell us about some of the things that you think about and growing your firm, hiring, staffing.
Michael Binger 3:38
Yeah. So I’m glad you mentioned that. So I started 12 years ago. We’re at about 200 million in aum. Today, we’re, you know, over 6.5 billion now. Okay, great. You know, I look back, you know, gradient has been able to grow AUM on an annualized basis in the past 12 years, about 30% well above what the market’s doing, what other firms are doing. It’s been great. So number one, we have a real growth culture here. You know one of our sayings around here, and you’ve probably heard this before, but if your you know, business is kind of like going up and down elevator, right if you’re not running you’re going to end up at a heap at the bottom of that elevator. So we are very interested in growing. And the best way you can grow is two ways. So we deal with about 400 advisors across the country. We partner with them. We want to grow that base from 400 to, you know, 450 and 500 but that’s hard, you know, the a good way. And you can do the math. If you take 6 billion divided by 400 that’s about 15 million in AUM per advisor, if you can provide them, the services, the support, the you know, the friendship, the surrounding organization they need, and the encouragement to help them go from 15 to 30. That’s how you can grow your business much more quickly.
Anthony Scaramucci 4:56
Okay, so, so you know, obviously there’s, there’s. Something about you, there’s an X factor. All of that stuff you said, all makes sense, but there’s a niceness of value. I don’t know what the hell it is. I mean, tell me what it is about you that you get these people so motivated. I’ve been to some of your events. You’ve got a great staff. You’ve got people that are very attentive. You’ve got people on your staff that are extremely client centric. So what is it about you? What did your grandmother or your mother tell you that you needed to do in terms of treating people that you’ve been deploying a gradient?
Michael Binger 5:36
Yeah, a couple of things there. You know, a long time ago, when I first started out in this business. You know, my father talked to me and he said, Look, one thing you never want to forget is that you know you’re going to be dealing with big numbers and big trades and a lot of dollars. And don’t ever lose sight that all of those dollars came from someone who worked very hard, probably for their whole life, to save that up and trust you with it. So don’t ever forget that the other thing is, is with gradient investments, I believe in two things. I believe, if we provide good, competent product and excellent service, that’s what advisors need, and that will keep people locked in with us and want to partner with us. And I almost lean more. I mean, I hate to say this because we’re portfolio managers and investment people, but product is becoming a bit commoditized over time. I think service and access and a people culture and helping advisors, you know, and just being for them is more important these days than actual the product you’re delivering.
Anthony Scaramucci 6:36
So, you know, you and I have been doing this a long time, and so I’m looking at the world right now, and I’m saying, is it possible that the Fed is sticking a soft landing? Is that possible? Okay, we know that. They said it was transitory inflation. They got that wrong. They missed the supply chain issues of snags there. They became more secularized. They racketed rates. Two years ago, you and I were in the House of Pain while they were doing it. They cut 50. Are they going to cut another 50? Do they need to cut another 50? Where’s the economy right now? And if you were the Fed chair, what would you be doing in terms of the interest rate cycle? All
Michael Binger 7:20
right, that’s a lot there. All right, so let’s start out with the soft landing. I mean, I’ve heard the no landing scenario, but I mean, the playbook says, right, if you have extremely high inflation and you have to control it by raising interest rates to bring it down, you run the risk of choking off the economy and going into a recession that clearly didn’t happen. So the Fed is already through its interest rate rising cycle, correct? I mean, now we’re actually cutting rates. So in my opinion, I think we’ve been in a soft landing, or a no landing, or whatever you want to call it. I think we’re already there, and now we, you know, we’re going to have another tailwind to what’s already a strong, strong economy by the Fed cutting rates at this point in time. So my opinion is, we’ve been in a soft landing. We’ll continue to stay in a pretty strong environment here. You know, there’s a couple of things that, you know I worry about, but if you look at the fundamentals, and that’s, what’s the health of the economy, you know, what’s the profit and losses of the companies that thrive and work in that economy? And then valuation, all three are pretty much in the green, and you can check as a positive right now. So, so, yeah, I think the economy is strong will continue to stay so,
Anthony Scaramucci 8:41
so Paul Tudor Jones is out there remarking that all roads lead to inflation. He’s basically saying that regardless of the election outcome, because of the rampant deficit spending, he’s not saying we’re gonna have a debt crisis yet, but he is looking at the numbers in the national deficit, the overall debt of the country, and the interest rates payments that we’re paying. And let’s face it, you and I know that the interest rates now that we’re paying, the payments are greater than the military budget. They’re eating into a very large part of the discretionary side of the budget, the GDP to debt ratio is rising. What’s going to happen? Is he right? Are we just going to end up with rampant inflation? If we are going to end up with rampant inflation, how would you play that? What are you telling clients, or is he wrong? And if he’s wrong, what are you telling clients?
Michael Binger 9:41
I think he’s wrong. I don’t think we’re in a period of rampant inflation. And I would say rampant inflation is kind of systemic inflation. You know, over 5% I think we can continue to hum along. Look, everyone sees the debt clock. They know we’re at 35 trillion. I mean. Another six months, we’re probably going to be at 36 or wherever we’re at, but, but, you know, when I look at the debt picture, I mean, the federal government’s only one part of it, right? You know, we have a lot of other you know, think about consumer debt, business debt, and they all thrived in this low interest rate environment. You know, they have refinanced their homes, refinance their loans. Businesses have refinanced and extended debt at very low interest rates for quite some time. So the majority of the debt, if you include the whole debt picture in the United States, I think, is pretty solid. Yeah, the government debt is beginning to be a problem. There’s two things I would look at Anthony on government debt that would lead me to think we’re kind of at a tipping point. Number one would be that, you know, I don’t worry about the number as much I worry about our ability to service it. And when you look at that, you know, the collective global investing universe is going to make that decision if it’s good or bad, and and if they think it’s bad, interest rates on the tenure are going to shoot up, and they really haven’t done that, and the dollar is going to plummet, and that really hasn’t happened either. So yeah, it’s a concern, but it’s not an immediate concern or a midterm concern, as far as I’m looking at things. Okay,
Anthony Scaramucci 11:19
so how are you positioning? What do you tell your clients? Well,
Michael Binger 11:22
you know, gradient investments is part of a, you know, gradient Financial Group. So we’re, you know, we, our advisors, are more interested in developing a financial plan for people, and with that plan, they’re trying to meet longer term income goals and growth goals and things like that, and most people’s financial plans once they’re close to retirement, and retirement work at about 6% so what we’re telling people is, you know, now is the time to use a nice, balanced portfolio on the you know, let’s say, you know, we agree that 60% of that should be equity right now we’re almost 100% in the US market. You know, I know some people might stay extended, but we think it’s broadening at this point in time, and the other 40% I don’t think the bond market is a bad place to be in at this time, with 10 year rates at around 424, and a quarter. So we’re really solid on let’s stick to a balanced investment profile. That’s a 6040 you know, we think the 6040 is back right now,
Anthony Scaramucci 12:25
okay? I mean, it’s fair enough. So, I mean, you’re a traditional finance person, you’re offering, you know, super solid advice to people. Is Bitcoin part of that at all? Or is that too avant garde. For you guys,
Michael Binger 12:43
it, it is not to avant garde. We actually have a digital discovery portfolio that’s part of our suite of investment strategies in that digital discovery. I mean, that includes things like AI, Bitcoin, you know the metaverse, you know, a blockchain, you know, really the the next and upcoming digital economy. We feel bitcoins a part of that. Look, I I’ve been around in this business, you know, and due to my age and tenure and all that, I may be a little more skeptical than the average person, but, you know, Bitcoin has been here for quite some time. It’s had some success in the marketplace. It’s, you know, there’s ETFs based there, so there’s definitely something here. It’s starting to get a little bit more and more adoption. You know, I can’t really yet go into a store or places like that and buy things with Bitcoin, but it wouldn’t surprise me if, you know, 510, years down the road, that’s the case where you can not only use Bitcoin in a US based store, department store, you could use it globally at a department store. Once that starts to really happen, that’s when I think, you know, Bitcoin will really see an inflection point. But the ETFs are a big start. So yes, I’m starting to become more and more of a believer in it that it’s a valid asset class moving forward.
Andrew Brill 14:02
Hi everyone. I’m one of your hosts here at wealthion, Andrew brill, in these weird economic times where the market is up, then it could go down. A lot of people calling for a correction. Some people think it’s just going to keep going up. But if you need help being financially resilient, head over to wealthion.com/free and we’ll give you a free, no obligation. We don’t expect anything from you. We’ll just help you evaluate your portfolio and let you know what we can do to help. Again, head over to wealthion.com/free, for a free, no obligation, portfolio review, and let us do the heavy lifting for you, right?
Anthony Scaramucci 14:40
NASDAQ up a lot. S, P, up a lot. We have a big year next year. You know, election years, as you and I both know, are typically quite good for the stock market for whatever reasons we can we can posit a lot of different ideas, but they typically are. What about the first year of a new presidential term?
Unknown Speaker 14:59
Sure. Well,
Michael Binger 15:01
historically, that’s also been a decent year, but as we look forward to next year, you know, one of the things that that we preach a lot here at Grady investments, to our advisors and to other clients, is clients tend to get whipped up on politics, you know, and we’re not taking one side versus the other, but what we encourage them is we say, Look, Mr. And Mrs. Client, politics are very emotional. You may feel that way, but if one thing you should not do is blend your political feelings with your portfolio decisions. You know, we we invest and develop financial plans for, you know, 1020, 30 years, not for two, four and six year political cycles, you know. So our opinion is, is that market cycles, economic cycles, last much long and are already in motion versus political cycles. And if you make knee jerk decisions based off politics, you know, you’re going to detract from a long term plan now, with that said, depending on who gets an office next year, I mean, we’ll adjust sector and portfolio weightings. I mean things like energy and financials with, you know, maybe more or less increased regulation energy with more or less drilling, and more or less emphasis on, you know, on, on green energy, all those kind of things. But as far as saying, like, look, we’re gonna, you know, make a stock to cash decision, or vice versa, depending on who wins, that’s not going to happen with
Anthony Scaramucci 16:35
us. You know, I’m not going to ask you who you want to win. I’m not going to ask you who you think is going to win. But I do want you to compare the economic plans. Which economic plan in your mind, having looked at both, is better for the US economy.
Michael Binger 16:50
Well, I I honestly think that you know, lower tax rates corporately are going to help the economy. So that would fall in the on the red side of the equation. I think tariffs. I think anyone who knows economics and all that you know is going to tell you that tariffs are going to, you know, tend to slow the economy and make prices more inflation. So I’m a little torn here. I think our economy will probably do a little bit better if the you know, if the red side gets in office next year, you know, and that’s strictly from a financial economic perspective, you know, I just think that. But I do think some of those policies tend to be a little more short term in in nature, but I think all politics tends to be more short term in nature.
Anthony Scaramucci 17:46
Okay, all right, it’s your show. I’m not going to opine one way or the other. That’s the beauty. That’s the beauty of speak up. You get to speak up investment strategy and innovation. Let’s talk about that for a second. Okay, your firm’s investment strategy was inspired by the Wright Brothers three access control system for flight Okay, explain that to our audience, and how do you draw parallels between flight dynamics? Don’t tell my wife this, by the way, because she’s very afraid of flying. But flight dynamics and constructing investment portfolios.
Michael Binger 18:23
Yep. So, so the founder of our company, gradient Financial Group, which gradient investments is a part of. He was his name is Chuck Lucius. He and his wife Tammy Lucius, they founded the company, you know, almost 20 years ago. But Chuck was a Vietnam Air Force pilot. So gradient is a aeronautical term. So a lot of this has to do with, you know, the systems and processes that are that you would find with a pilot and piloting an airplane. You know, he’s applied to the financial services business a lot. You know, we’re big believers in that, if you follow a process, and you have systems and processes in place, and you follow them, and you treat it all the same, that you’ll have better outcomes over time. So that’s where all that came from. And the three axis is, really, are, you know, there’s strategy, managing risk and then assessing performance over time. That’s the process.
Anthony Scaramucci 19:21
Okay, fair enough, I want you to pitch a new client. Okay, alright, so somebody’s walked in. They’ve got ten million on the table. It’s but is there? They just sold that business. It’s their life savings. They’re coming to you. They’re going to go to some bigger firms than yours, some smaller firms than yours. Go give me the pitch. All right,
Michael Binger 19:45
Anthony, you just came into a windfall. You have a nice nest egg. You need to live on that and generate income to live on for the rest of your life. And you’d also like to have some legacy assets for your kids. Number one, let’s satisfy your income. Them. Let’s do that in a guaranteed way that we can, you know, satisfy what you need over time and make sure that’ll be there through thick and thin, no matter what the market does after that. You know, we’re a believer in the market. We, you know, we believe that, you know, historically, the market is is up three out of four years. You know, we believe that history repeats itself, and when they say things are different, they generally are not. So we need to satisfy your income first, then we need to develop a good plan for your growth and legacy assets over time. We believe the stock market is probably still the best game in town there and then, so we’re going to allocate there. And then finally, we have some products, investment strategies that are called structured notes. We have structured note portfolios, and these are investment strategies that give you some downside protection while allowing you to participate in the upside of the market. And you know you’ve already made a good amount of money, you probably don’t need to hit home runs anymore in the markets. But if you can get an annualized return of somewhere between 12 and 15% and have 15 to 20% downside protection in any given period, to me, that’s a win, and we’re going to invest you accordingly there too. So that’s my pitch, and trust me, with a firm our size versus some of the big banks who may be in competition for your to develop your financial plan, you will be a very important customer with us, and you will get the best service that we can possibly provide.
Anthony Scaramucci 21:32
All right, I love the pitch, so with that, we’re going to segue over to questions from the audience.
Unknown Speaker 21:39
Okay?
Anthony Scaramucci 21:43
How do you view opportunities in international markets, especially with China’s economic stimulus and inexpensive markets like Brazil. This is Andrew from New York.
Michael Binger 21:53
All right, let’s talk China first. So as we all know, you know, back in back in the 90s and 2000s before the financial crisis, international stocks did very well. But ever since the financial crisis, the US has been king. You know, there’s a reason for that. I mean, the US has had, you know, we have the best capital markets companies, the biggest banks, the most innovative technology companies, you know, that kind of thing. We have very strong corporations that are unlocked from a lot of, I don’t know, clamps on innovation. So they can do that, and they’ve done that. China, yes, they’re stimulating, but they’re stimulating for a reason is because their economy has really hit a wall. You know, China, you know, they’re running into a lot of problems, the aging population, aging workforce, a lot of debt hidden in there. If you know, you have to try and uncover that. I’m just not sold that stimulus is is going to provide, is going to unleash GDP growth over there, you know, closer to 10% than where it’s added three or 4% right now. I’m of the opinion that China did it to avert a financial crisis, you know, due to all their debt and building things, they really need to unleash their population to start spending money and become more consumers and service oriented like the US is. So I’m still on the fence there. I would not say jump in, just because they’ve stimulated. Brazil is cheap today. Brazil has always been cheap, mainly because Brazil is a commodity driven economy. And when you’re a commodity driven economy, you’re going to get, you know, your stock market’s going to be kind of concentrated in commodity companies who tend to carry low multiples. So it’s cheap. It’s cheap for a reason. I don’t have a, you know, a problem putting a little money into Brazil at this point in time, but keep an eye on the price of iron ore and their inflation rate, and I think that’ll tell you something.
Anthony Scaramucci 23:48
All right, let’s fire up another one, given the concerns around inflation. Do you think investors should consider increasing their exposure to tips? And so we have young people that listen in on this. So what are tips? Tips are basically inflation and protected securities or treasuries that have a little variability depending on what the inflation rate is. And so the question is, are there better strategies for protecting portfolios against this? This is Mitch from Colorado,
Michael Binger 24:20
yeah. I guess you know, tips aren’t a bad strategy, but that’s if you believe that inflation is is about to increase. And I’m just not a believer that inflation is going to ratchet up into the high single digits again. I don’t believe that’s going to happen. I think we’re kind of stuck here at this and I’m going to say around two and a half to 4% probably for the next three to five years, we’re going to be stuck. I don’t think we’re going to I think it’s be very difficult to get back down to 2% so I would say tips is not a great strategy, in my opinion, right now, we certainly aren’t using them in any of our portfolios.
Anthony Scaramucci 24:58
Okay, let’s get. Going big tech has driven the bull market. We always talk about The Magnificent Seven, Michael, but what’s your take on small cap stocks? Are there good opportunities there right now? This is Stanley from California.
Michael Binger 25:13
Yes, I believe that if you’re selective and look at the right small cap stocks, I feel a lot of really good small cap stocks have been caught in the, you know, just investors not investing there, staying away from the small cap arena. So I think small cap stocks do well when interest rates are starting to fall, they can borrow cheaper, all those things that go along with being a smaller company. So I would not be afraid to, you know, to allocate, and, you know, allocate probably more than a normal allocation of the market right now, which is roughly around 10% and you know, the in the eye touch or total US market, I think you go a little higher than that. And and think about a 20 to 25% allocation in small cap stocks for the next, you know, couple of years. I think you might be rewarded. I’m also starting to see, you know, when you talked about the big seven, we all know what they are. I just looked at this recently. You know, if you look at Nvidia, which is probably the king of those seven, I mean, their relative strength versus the market peaked in June. If you look at Microsoft, their relative strength versus market peaked last year. I mean, so leadership is starting to broaden out versus just these seven stocks, which means small cap stocks, I think, will also start to their performance. Will start to outperform some of these big cap stocks keep going. I would not just wholeheartedly sell all these companies. I mean, these companies got to be the mag seven for a reason, right? I mean, you and I were around in the tech bubble back in 2001 right?
Anthony Scaramucci 26:53
I was, it was very painful for me, yeah. And, and, you know that people of our ilk, of our generation, many of them swore off tech stocks. Yes, and they missed a 25 year, which was arguably the best macro investment trend in human history. Were tech stocks from the bottom of that debacle in the year 2000 All right, let’s go to the next question. So
Michael Binger 27:18
before we get there, Anthony, I believe that this tech run is very different than 2001 I mean, back then, I mean, valuations were ridiculous. You know, some companies didn’t even have revenue yet. You know, we were measuring eyeballs and views and things like that. Today, the mag seven, they are generating a lot of sales, they are generating a lot of profits, and they are generating a lot of cash flows, and their multiples are in the 30s, not the 80s or 90s. So to me, it’s this, this tech run is a lot different than it was back in the tech rec of 2001
Anthony Scaramucci 27:54
well, said, Let’s go to the next one. Yep, it’s the biggest risk you see in the markets today. How should investors prepare? Rafael from the UK, all right,
Michael Binger 28:05
let’s just talk the US market right now. I think the biggest risk to the market today is that the soft landing evaporates, inflation comes back, and we go into a recession economically. And I think if that starts to happen, along with companies having to start laying off and that kind of permeating throughout our economy, I think the consumer might shut down their spending. And as we all know, this economy in corporate America is driven by consumer spending and our desire and ease, you know, to take our discretionary income and spend it versus save it. If we start to hit a wall in the economy, or the unemployment rate creeps up over five, I think consumers will kind of pull back, and that would be a big risk, I think, right.
Anthony Scaramucci 28:54
Let’s keep let’s keep talking.
Michael Binger 28:59
So the other one, you know, the other risk is, I don’t think it’s political. I don’t think it’s, you know, as I look out on the landscape, I, you know, I don’t, I really don’t think it’s any international hot spots or anything like that. I mean, look, I’ve been in this business 34 years, and I can’t remember a year where there hasn’t been some type of international conflict at all. So, you know, I just got to go back to it’s really a consumer driven economy, and the things that affect the consumer are inflation, employment, prices, those kind of things. So if those things start getting a little out of hand, that’s the risk, I
Anthony Scaramucci 29:41
think. All right, let’s go to the next question for those nearing retirement like myself, how do I balance the need for growth with protecting my savings in today’s market? It’s a brilliant question. By rose from Florida, yeah.
Michael Binger 29:56
Well, I think number one you you. You don’t take all your assets and you don’t put all your assets into growth, and you don’t put them all into protection. You balance it according to who you are. You know what you’re you know everybody’s different out there. And so that’s why it’s important, in my opinion, to talk to a financial advisor, to, you know, help them assess what your needs are and develop a long term plan. But you know, what’s really resonating and growing in our firm right now are these structured note portfolios, just for the reason I told you. I mean, I’m gonna, I’m gonna pitch you as a client right now. Anthony, okay, go ahead, in the next two years, if the market’s down aggressively, two years from now, 20% but you’re only down 5% How do you feel? Probably Okay, right? Yeah,
Anthony Scaramucci 30:44
I feel good. Well, I’m long in the tooth, and I know how horrible this is, so I think I feel pretty good. All right,
Michael Binger 30:53
so now let’s say the market is marginally down two years from now, zero to 15% let’s say 12% but you’re actually up 12% How do you feel about that? That’s good, right? Yeah. Now, let’s say, two years from now, the market is up nicely, and it’s up 30% but you’re only up 24% Are you good with 24%
Anthony Scaramucci 31:15
I get your point. So it’s all relative. Game is what you’re basically, it’s emotional, it’s relative. Yeah,
Michael Binger 31:21
I just gave you three market scenarios, and you kind of told me it’s a win, win, win here, no matter what happens. And that’s what a structured note portfolio can do for you. That’s what our dual directional structured note portfolio is doing for people. It’s called a dual directional buffer index strategy. And that’s what’s resonating. And they’re growing like a weed with our clients, and they and they love them, frankly. You know, they can. They like the fact that they can earn double they have the potential to earn double digit returns with the market. And they sleep better at night knowing they have 15 to 20% downside protection. All
Anthony Scaramucci 31:57
right, I like it. All right. This is why I wanted to bring you on. So I have to tell you, I enjoy coming to your events. They’re always well attended. You always got great speakers. I don’t know how I’m I’ve got myself in there, but I do appreciate you allowing me to come. And I look forward to having you back on speak up. Maybe you and I can do a post election wrap up. Yeah, depending on who the winner is, but in the meantime, thank you for joining us on speak up today and and I look forward to seeing you soon.
Michael Binger 32:31
Thank you so much. And have you back. I love it. That’s
Andrew Brill 32:34
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