What’s really driving the markets as we enter 2025? Sven Henrich, founder of NorthmanTrader, joins Anthony Scaramucci to deliver a no-holds-barred analysis of today’s fragile and liquidity-driven markets. In this in-depth conversation, Sven uncovers hidden risks, market distortions, and bold predictions that every investor needs to know.
Discover the factors shaping the new year, including the Fed’s evolving role, geopolitical tensions, and the structural challenges posed by global inequality. Sven also shares his insights on Bitcoin’s trajectory, the growing impact of AI and automation, and strategies for managing risk in volatile markets.
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Sven Henrich 0:00
The consequence of all this has actually left us with probably the most distorted, bifurcated macrocycle ever, and I’m a little worried that we’re all kind of viewing everything through a distorted lens. You
Anthony Scaramucci 0:20
Anthony, welcome to speak up. I am your host, Anthony Scaramucci on the wealthion network. Joining us today is Sven Henrik, founder, and he is the lead Market Strategist of Northman trader. First of all, thank you so much for joining us. I enjoy your macro economic outlook, which is why we invited you on, sir. So thank you for coming on. So why don’t we start there? 2025 what’s going to happen? What should I be worried about? Hi
Sven Henrich 0:53
Anthony. You’re glad to be with you. Well, first of all, let me I think to understand 25 we need to kind of clear the deck a little bit on 24 and 23 obviously, we’ve seen really a smooth bull market. Every dip was bought, and we need to understand why that is, and that is primarily from my perspective, easing of financial conditions. They peaked in terms of the tightening cycle. It peaked in october 22 and that was that’s when everything flipped. And three primary drivers of the easing financial conditions, in my view, were, one, the exorbitant us deficit. We have added $5 trillion in debt since October 22 which is unheard of in the sense in a non recessionary environment. Six, 7% debt to GDP that is stimulative in any setting. That’s typically what you see during a crisis. Number two Fed has had a couple of liquidity facilities, and now obviously the banking crisis in the march of 23 was one of them. But larger than that was reverse repo, which peaked also in 22 at around $2.4 trillion and it specifically declined, fact, in in tail end of q4 that verbal down to just below $100 billion so $2.3 trillion added on on top of that in terms of liquidity injections. And then, of course, you know, we got in tremendous buybacks by us corporates flooding through the system, and they’re supposed to actually come into about a trillion dollars again in 2025 so you can, you can view that as a continued positive in terms of liquidity. But we got to keep a close eye on on how liquidity will evolve in 2025 and we can talk about that a little bit, but the consequence of all this has actually left us with probably the most distorted, bifurcated macro cycle ever. And I’m a little worried that we’re all kind of viewing everything through a distorted lens. I mean, obviously s, p, NASDAQ have done tremendously. We saw 23 25% increases in those in 2024 you look under the hood, things get a lot less impressive. In fact, think about this, NASDAQ, nd x1 100, increased by 100 by 25% in 24 basically, but equal weight NASDAQ, only 6% it the market really gravitated towards the few mega cap stocks that are themselves now at tremendous forward multiples and price to Sales ratios. It’s a very, very concentrated market. If I look at, you know, broadly, you know, new highs, new lows on the broader stock market. In a typical bull market, what you would see is new highs in cumulative advance decline on us, new highs, new lows. We haven’t seen that, not even close. Xvg is to know, if you’re familiar with that, it’s the value lines geometric index. It’s like when you take an index, you put every stock at 100 and then watch them move relative to each other. Guess what? In 2024 it didn’t even gain 3% that’s how weak the underlying market is. And it’s concerning, right? Because I would like to see the proper broadening. And part of the reason I think we haven’t seen the broadening is that while we have easing of financial conditions, you you have it, while in financial markets, in the broader economy, you don’t, you get this, this big K shaped recovery while so you got, you know, Wall Street party, you got Main Street pain, and that’s causing issues, and we see that now with yields back up in early 24 I published this article called the cynics guide to markets, and the view was, watch. Liquidity, it should be bullish. And guess what? The fifth year of any 10 year cycle. Don’t ask me why. Anthony’s it’s a it’s a historical fluke. You go back to 1900 the fifth year of every decade makes new highs. It’s, it’s incredible. You know, 2015 wasn’t that great, because we had weakness in the tail end of the year. But every fifth year has made new highs. And so from that perspective, historically, I have to say, Okay, I should expect new highs. Of course. I’m a little worried that we have maybe front loaded a lot of the gains in 2024 with this concentration of the market. But to the extent that we see yields reversing, we can see that big catch up trade, and we can talk about, obviously, what the reversal or what may prompt the reversal. Some of it may be good, some that may be bad, right? Because we have yield curves inverting, you know, and the Fed now actually has a big problem, because they cut rates by 100 basis points. Yes, the 10 year yield is up 110 basis points. It’s all kind of backwards, and the Fed is now worried about inflation picking up again. Well, guess what? When you flood everything with liquidity and asset prices go up, you create a wealth effect. And and some of the Fed speakers have actually kind of started admitting to that, in the sense that, you know, retail spending and growth is held up by the wealth effect, because asset prices go up, consumers feel wealthy, so they spend okay. But if you have a market flush with liquidity. You got overstated growth, perhaps through massive federal deficit, stimulus spending, and you have all this, you know, the the upper spending curve, in terms of the the wealthy continuing to spend, you risk that inflation goes back up. And that’s, that’s kind of what we’re seeing. And I think this is going to be key for markets to negotiate through. We can all hope for a happy ending to this. But because we’ve seen such an aggressive bull market as techno obviously, primarily also market technician, I see the possibility, and we’re going to have a lot wider ranges in 2025 and the market may have some appointments with some corrective activity that is more substantial compared to 2024 even 2023 and may actually be a healthy thing. So I’m, don’t, don’t count me in as a bear, but I’m, I think, keenly aware of much broader price ranges in terms of downside risks than we’ve seen in the last couple years. That’s kind of my opening, if you will.
Andrew Brill 7:55
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Anthony Scaramucci 8:35
So you mentioned the Fed, so I want to go there, and I think you’re you’re giving is a brilliant assessment, but I’m going to start with a story. So I want you to react to the story. When I got into the business, I had read a lot of apocalyptic newsletters and apocalyptic newsletters in the 1990s said we were going to have a great recession. Ravi Batra had a best selling book called The Great Recession of the 1990s we had apocalyptic deficits. We were going to be taken over by the Japanese. You know, I think you and I are both old enough to know that the Japanese were buying Pebble Beach. They’re buying 30 Rockefeller Center, and the US was going to fall into the earth. And it’s 35 years later, we’ve racked up about $33 trillion worth of debt. Over the 35 years, US didn’t fall into the earth. Stock market went from 3000 to 42,000 and so the apocalyptic people got it wrong, but I’m sitting here right now looking and I feel like there’s an apocalypse coming, but maybe I’m wrong about that as well, but you be the Fed chair, and you take me inside the meeting where things are upside down, the deficit, the politicians are not going to stop spending. And so people come on this network and they rail on monetary policy. Modern monetary theory. They rail on it, but we’re all monetary theory. We’re all modern monetary theorists, because that’s all we do. So tell me. Tell me what’s going on. Is there an apocalypse coming? Are we? Is somebody like you and me will be long gone, but there’s something like you and me 40 years from now, US deficit will be 150 trillion, gonna be no problem. I
Sven Henrich 10:24
think what we’re seeing now is the consequence of 16 years of interventionist central bank policy. The global financial crisis was obviously a big deal. That was that was kind of the moment where everything was at the brink of falling apart. And from Bernanke on, on forward, what the Fed has done, if you look at, you know, go before COVID, the period between the GSC and COVID, what happened every time, every time there was any sort of trouble. And by the way, Bernanke, right after the global financial crisis, he was in front of Congresses, and we’re going to get the balance sheet back down to below a trillion dollars. That’s what he was talking about. And of course, he then proceeded to get it to four and a half trillion, right? Because they started going back to the well, and they kept intervening. Qe two, QE three, QE four. We all know the history. And then, of course, COVID happened, and boy, did they react. Superb. It quickly that the issue is that we have never allowed or they the Fed has never felt confident enough to let the system cleanse itself. And you know, if I look at markets now in terms of just traditional metrics, I though, you know, market capitalization versus GDP, you know, we’re we came into Q for it over 200% you know. And obviously the post COVID excess, where they threw everything at it, fiscal, monetary, MBs, purchases through the roof. We got to 200% we’d never seen anything like that. And of course, I know that, you know, we’ve big Nash international tech companies. You can argue maybe the the standard metric is a bit outdated. But the fact is, the valuations are, were where they are. I mean Apple, price to sales, price to sales of 10. You know, PES all of these guys are in the 30s. I mean Apple, for just an example, in 2017 Apple was the first company hit a trillion dollar market cap. That was a big deal. Took him a long time to get there. In q4 we had three companies at three and a half, almost $4 trillion in market cap. I mean, the the market cap expansions that we’ve been seeing last few years are just stunning beyond belief. Ultimately, you would think there has to be a fundamental story that supports these valuations or expressed in a different ways. You can hardly afford accidents. The point I’m making is the entire system has become ever more financialized, and it’s ever more dependent counter to with each other. If you have a major drawdown in financial markets, you end up in a recession. The market is so much larger than the economy now, and so I’m my view is policy makers are fearful of what would come I mean, maybe you could have handled this a bit better than 10 years ago, but now everything is even more extreme, so everyone is afraid to cause a cause that reckoning, right? And so you got Powell and you got Yellen. You know, they get for years, they’ve been saying the same thing, oh, you know these deficits are unsustainable yet. You know, they’ve been continuing to support what has been happening on that front you cannot have a politician today. Be it Biden, be it Trump, be it anyone in leadership says we’re actually going to we’re going to really cut down spending. You know, everybody is a deficit hawk until the stock market crashes, right? And unfortunately, and this is one of my larger macro concerns globally, by doing that, who is benefiting? Well, we know 90% of the assets are owned by the top 10% the wealth inequality, wealth gap. It’s been getting worse and worse and worse worse from cycle to cycle. Classic example last year, you know, the top 10 billionaires got 750 billion in additional wealth is stowed upon them, but homelessness is at the highest level ever, according to some of those news items I see. And one. One reason, you know, people like to think, oh, you know, these guys were bad, so now we’re going to fix everything. The reason we’re seeing governments falling like dominoes everywhere in the western world is because of social discontentment. You know, that’s why I think Trump just won again. That’s why in England, the Tories got kicked out. That’s why in Germany, Schultz is getting kicked out. That’s why in France, we have political trouble. We see that everywhere, because a large swath of the population is struggling and and so I would argue. And maybe this is a maybe not a very popular thing to say, but have central banks, with their constant interventions and towards the Express benefits of financial assets prices, have they contributed to social and political instability because they are directly driving this wealth gap. Sorry to say, I think even you know, Druckenmiller mentioned that as well, in terms of the Federal Reserve being biggest driver of wealth inequality. I mean, is that? Where’s this heading? How is that going to have a happy ending? I am. I’m asking, because the trend has been the same, and it’s getting ever more extreme. And we do see now globally, as I just mentioned, signs of global political instability. And how do you govern societies? How do you make policy when you have large swaths of the population getting ever more fragmented, where you cannot agree on a common reality, and there’s complex problems that no one can tackle because there’s no there’s no cohesive political way to solve these problems. And so in the meantime, everybody comes in and relies on the same well to keep the illusion up, if you will, right? So that that is a structural concern. And at this point, I, you know, I hear now from Elon, and you know, he wants to cut $2 trillion in government spending. I Yeah, government spending is out of control. Totally agree with that, but I don’t know how much of that is realistic, given how government is structured, how much does in mandatory spending? And so I suspect that the answer is deficits until, until something breaks, until they can’t handle it’s
Anthony Scaramucci 17:34
interesting, because the government is set up where they get the increase. If they don’t spend the increase, they can’t get more increases. So they’re, they’re incentivized to spend the money on very wasteful things. So, but it’s a, it seems like a daisy chain that continues, I guess. I guess neither one of us knows the answer to this, but it seems like it’s going to continue for longer than people had projected. Yeah, 30 years ago, they said it was coming to an end. It’s 35 years later. Here we are again. I guess, I guess. What I would like to ask you about is, because I know you write a lot about this, the geopolitical tensions you know we now have, the president threatening Panama, President Trump, he’s threatening Panama, Greenland, and he’s threatening Canada. I don’t know. I mean, you know, a lot of my friends on Wall Street voted for Donald Trump, and when I said to them, okay, so what do you think he’s going to do? Well, he’s not going to do what he says he’s going to do. Oh, okay, so you voted for somebody that you so he’s not going to deport 15 million people. He’s not going to have 600% tariffs on China. He’s not going to invade Greenland like, okay, so what is he going to do? And how do you think the geopolitical situation gets resolved or exacerbated over the next year?
Sven Henrich 18:54
Yeah, that’s a very good question. I think it’s fair to say, and I think everybody should be humble about that in terms of the lack of visibility, in terms of what actually gets implemented, vis a vis what is rhetoric, and obviously what ultimately matters is what does get implemented. Obviously, we’re all witness to the first Trump presidency. My just my personal impression, I think he cares about the stock market very much. It’s one of his benchmarks, actually, from that perspective. You know, if I were him, I would have probably wanted to have seen a larger correction going into the inauguration. Because, you know, you always see the previous presidential track record, and then you have yours, you know, as a measuring stick going going forward. And as I said, valuations are very high, and this is where kind of the last few weeks are interesting to me, because, you know, Yellen and Biden basically had an unlimited credit card for the last few years. And. Allen just came out and says, Guess what? We’re going to hit the debt ceiling here in January. And hence, I think it was no surprise, Trump came out and says, I want that too. We got to increase the debt ceiling again. And I think, to your earlier point, they all going to do it. They have no choice. No one has a choice. You cannot fatten the pain if that would ensue, if that debt ceiling wasn’t kicked down the road again. So yes, it’s going to happen. I think ultimately, Trump will definitely want to push tax cuts, certainly extend the ones that came from his previous administration, to the extent that he can push in more obviously, that’s going to be increasing the deficit again, right? So you where the only way you can solve the deficit is you got to have real structural growth that’s not driven by liquidity and deficit in itself. But you can have that with yields where they are now. I think if yields stay as high as they are, you know, in the 10 year, heading here precarious for close to 5% let’s not forget, despite all the liquidity and all the distortions, there is still fundamentals. There’s still a business cycle out there. And if we stay on this path, in terms of, you know, the longer we stay on this path here, in 2025 I think the recession areas is actually increasing, and there are plenty of disturbing facts one can point to that haven’t mattered so far. But that’s what happens in every cycle. We always get to that, you know, 2007 right? The even the Fed didn’t believe it, because everybody doesn’t want to see the bad downside, right? We are conditions for that, because the bad news items get over trumped by the enthusiasm. I mean, look where we are now. This is kind of wild, because, you know, not only do we have the most valued stock market, but the most concentrated stock market, retail has higher exposure to asset prices than ever, and everybody’s the most optimistic about 2025 What can possibly go wrong that? That’s, that’s kind of one of my structural concerns, where I say, you know, maybe, maybe we are do some more spankings this year to kind of, you know, shake things up a little bit, just everything is too one way too, too optimistic. And what have you now, countersight, as it says at the beginning, you know, trillion dollars in buyback coming in again, and maybe tax cuts. Those are all positives for corporations. But I’ll point to one particular item that I think caused a major hiccup this year, and that is the reverse repo I mentioned before, because it got down to below $100 billion in q4 and that thing is going to run out. It’s going to hit, get to close to zero. And then a major source, one of the big three legs of liquidity that has aided the stock markets since October 22 is gone. So what is the Fed going to do? And they’ve been conspicuously quiet on that. And I suspect when we do, if we do get these larger drawdowns this year, the Fed’s going to step in every step of the way. And in regards to yields, one of the Fed speakers this this week actually pointed to, we’re going to fix this. It didn’t say, how are they going to fix it? I think it was Bauman, but it’s it started smelling like yield curve control to me in reverse repo. If that runs out, you know, they can flip the switch on QE again, right? And by the way, the quickest way to solve high yields is slowing growth, right? So if you head towards a recession or slow growth slows dramatically, boom yields are going to go down, which ironically, then maybe a bullish effect on some of the laggards, like small caps and so forth that have not partaken so much in in the stock market rally.
Anthony Scaramucci 24:07
You know, you’ve made some bold predictions in the past. So give me a few bold ones before I go to audience questions. Bold ones,
Sven Henrich 24:15
vix 36 and maybe it’s not that bold, but I you know, from a technical perspective, I love the VIX. It. You know, in our age of OD te, people like to dismiss the VIX in many ways, but it left a big gap in August from that big spike that we had. I think that’ll ultimately get filled in 25 I wouldn’t call it a dramatic prediction, but I’d say the s, p as an appointment with the 200 Ma, that is around 5500 right? Now, when that happens, I don’t know earnings will be interesting here in q1 because the dollar has rallied so dramatically, right? And don’t tell me, every multinational corporation was perfectly hedged against the 10. Percent move in the dollar in four months. Okay, so there’s maybe some consternation with that, and maybe that’ll be the trigger to get us to the 200 and maybe we’ll initially probably get bought one of the this. This may sound mundane, but it’s a really interesting indicator. I love the exponential moving average, the five daily to five weekly, the five monthly, five quarterly, and the five yearly. And if you paid attention to the yearly five EMA, it’s been tagged in every bull market. It kind of it just always support, always support, always support. Last year we didn’t even tag it because the market was so persistently going higher that it connected with the S, P after the fact. Interesting. Well, guess what that thing is? Around 5005 5100, okay, if we were to drop all the way to there, unless you close the year below it, you’re still in the bull market. But guess what that would be, a 20% drawdown would probably be a great buy if that happens this year. Don’t know if it’s going to happen, but I’m open to it. Okay, so I think we’re going to have to negotiate a lot of ranges through stay open minded. I’m going to, I’m basically viewing 2025, as a trading year, in the sense that, you know, unless we get big drawdowns, everything’s a trade. If we do get big drawdowns, then we can have more of an investment horizon. And then, of course, depending on what fed responses said. So I you know for now, trading environment always looking at the long side, but also scaling out when the risk reward equation changes. And so we’ll see how this floats here in the first quarter. But you know policy in terms of what has been announced vis a vis what actually gets implemented, we all need to stay open mind about because those could be quite different things.
Anthony Scaramucci 26:55
What’s your bitcoin price prediction for 2025 before I go to audience questions? Well,
Sven Henrich 27:01
Michael, say I had a few podcasts back in the day, and the last one we had was when Bitcoin was dropping below 20,000 and my wife had a prediction then that would hit 100,000 it did. She now has a new prediction, which is 150,000 I think, oh, look deer behind me. If you look closely, I got a yeah,
Anthony Scaramucci 27:22
you’re doing beautifully there in London. I see the deer behind you.
Sven Henrich 27:24
Yeah, that’s cool. Like, nice to see him live the thing with Bitcoin. Obviously, if we are going to an SBR, I guess my question would I mean, if the government steps in buys Bitcoin yet. And you know, sky’s the limit, I suppose. But given deficit spending, I also kind of question, where’s the money coming from? You know? So it has to go on some book somewhere. This latest run up has come on fairly big negative divergences, so I would not be surprised to like the S P to see actually some larger drawdowns this year, and I’ll tell you why. If you look at a monthly chart of the S, P, V, C, B, Bitcoin, there is a 92% directional correlation that has gone over the last 10 years, and it’s all driven by liquidity. Okay? When, when the Fed’s tightening, everything goes down. When the Fed’s easing or the liquidity equation is positive, everything goes up. That’s why I’m saying with like reverse repo, what have you. Don’t be surprised if there’s drawdowns at the end of the day, it’s still about liquidity in terms of Bitcoin reserves. That’s, again, one of those policy things that’s out there, but it’s not real yet. And given that we’re also hitting the debt ceiling here in January, those things will have to be negotiated through as well. So, you know, don’t count on things that don’t exist yet. You know once, once you know they exist, and we, we can definitely talk about them.
Anthony Scaramucci 29:03
Okay, let’s take some audience questions. I think you’re always so brilliant and thorough. Your career spans a few market cycles. What’s one belief about markets you held early on Sven that you’ve since completely changed? This is Lucas from California,
Sven Henrich 29:19
that fundamentals matter more than anything else. I mean, the big lesson for me, and I’ve been guilty of this myself over the years, is that liquidity trumps everything. And if you’re not aware of the liquidity drivers, you’re going to find yourself fighting the tape in in a major way. I think financial market this is, you know, the I said this a couple of times last year when I put out some charts. This is not your daddy’s market. You know, when we see companies expanding their market caps by several $100,000,000,000.10 It’s, you know, on some news flash, or this, this is, this is a different ball of wax. So having said that, though, when things get really emotional in markets, when they get hyper, either on the negative side or the positive side, that the thing that keeps me honest and emotionally detached, which I think is really important markets are the technicals and the charts. And I’m not saying, you know, I’m going to buy every bottom, or I’m going to catch every top or what have you, but it’s, it’s very clear to me when the risk reward equation is shifting and, you know, I’m not going to establish new longs given certain parameters in place. The biggest, the biggest skill set I think any trader can match, and it’s also the hardest, is patience. You got to be able to wait for your setup and then execute on it. And you also need to be aware when your setup is no longer valid, because nothing is guaranteed. You know you can see a potential setup and it looks beautiful and it just kind of fizzes away. Well, then don’t chase it, right? But once a setup is working and it’s confirmed, then stick with it until the risk reward equation changes, so that that’s why I, to this day, still love technicals and these markets, despite all the distortions we could talk about and all the influences, they’re still very technical. And don’t forget, you know, the algos don’t go willy nilly either. They’re also respecting technicals. They’re they’re programmed for that reason. Let’s
Anthony Scaramucci 31:41
go to the next one. You have a 10 year investment horizon. What sectors or strategy would you recommend focusing on? This is Sarah from your neck of the woods. You know, United Kingdom. Hey, Sarah,
Sven Henrich 31:54
well, asking the wrong guy, because you know that the handles Northman trader, not Northman investor. I don’t have 10 year investment horizons. And given where valuations are generally at this point, I definitely don’t have an investment outlook. I can look, for example, to the UK, the FTSE, and given what actually has happened in the last 10 years, this rush towards equities has been predominantly beneficial for US equities, and so the US market is now what over 50% of global equities. And we’re talking about multiple concerns in the US by the way, one of them is gap gap earnings last year ended up over 30 if you look at previous bull markets, early, 2000 mid, 2000s and following, you know your gap Earnings Ratio ranged from 16 to 26 on the extreme. We’re already way beyond that. So it’s all kind of squeamish. But you look at like, for example, the UK or Germany, their multiples are much, much, much lower. So you know, there may be some longer term opportunities there. And yes, all these countries have issues. Everybody has issues. No question about that. But you know, you may face less of a valuation drawdown risk there, vis a vis, for example, the US. Let’s go to the next one.
Anthony Scaramucci 33:23
How should I approach risk management when investing in volatile assets like Bitcoin? Mark from Texas,
Sven Henrich 33:29
well, I’m a big believer in stops and not using leverage. Stops can be a pain in the butt, especially if you’re in a positioning process, because the tape can be very volatile, but your risk is very well defined. And you know, you know you and you obviously set your own stop size, so you know what that risk is, right? And then one of techniques we’ve been using over the years, which we like, is, once we are in a position and the the trade plays out, we also not stubborn, meaning, you know, we’re not gonna ride it all the way to the top, whatever the top may be. We’re gonna employ a scaling process, okay? So as, as the position goes in profit, we close a scale, right? So we we’re starting to build flexibility and cash again, right? And then when, when the trade, clearly, when the risk reward is completely shifted, yeah, then we close the position. And that way we always have a continuous process of flexibility building. But there are times when we are aggressive and say, well, this, this is, you know, for X, Y, Z reasons, this is a really interesting area that we’re interested in pursuing. So yes, we’ll use stops. We’ll get aggressive here, and, you know, we’ll take the stop pain at that point, we can always readjust. So.
Anthony Scaramucci 35:00
Right? Let’s go to the next question. What are your thoughts on the potential of AI and automation to reshape the workforce and the economy over the next decade? John from New York, you
Sven Henrich 35:13
know? I mean, the potential is enormous. No question about that. I mean, I can see where large swaths of jobs will just go away. I’ll give you one example. I mean call centers. I mean if you got aI plugged into all the processes and intelligently enough be able to converse. You know, I think a lot of us, you know, if we ever have a customer service issue, we get we, you know, we get stuck in call loose. We wouldn’t mind seeing that change it any any places where companies can become more efficient and obviously then save on their expenses in terms of labor force, I think there’s definitely risks there for the employment picture to shift dramatically. I’m not an expert on this. I can just go by what I’ve experienced, which is very little, but look at grok on Twitter right six months ago was just absolutely awful. I mean, this gave me constantly the wrong information, the wrong context, and I couldn’t use it for anything. I would be relying on it for anything. I credit to Elon, I’d say it’s improved quite dramatically. Is it where it needs to be? I’m probably not, but we’re still very early on this, and clearly the big boys are investing big time into that. So I’ll stay open minded about where these capabilities are going. But I think none of us can stay complacent in terms of assuming the job market is going to stay stagnant the way maybe it has been. There’s going to be changes.
Anthony Scaramucci 36:54
All right. Well, listen, you’ve been incredibly thoughtful, and we beat the sun down in the UK, Sven, see that? Alright, you get great lighting stuff, great lighting.
Sven Henrich 37:04
And we saw deer. We didn’t even have to go anywhere. Deer.
Anthony Scaramucci 37:08
Also, it’s a beautiful home you have. God bless you, and let’s keep up the good fight in 2025 and hopefully you’ll come back on. Speak up for us. Thank you so much for being on with us.
Sven Henrich 37:22
Thanks for having me, Anthony. Good luck in 25 as well.
Andrew Brill 37:26
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