Jared Dillian: Debt Bomb Ready to Explode?

Jared Dillian  0:00  
When interest rates were spiking last year, intense got up around 5%, you could see that there was a lot of pressure on the bond market because of issuance, right? We had these huge auctions in issuance was weighing on the market, and it was causing interest rates to go higher. And I said at the time, you know, I was like, look like, you know, people thought that we would get failed auctions and issuance can go higher. But I said, you know, demand can rise to meet supply, right. And, you know, for a lot of people 5% on 10s looks pretty attractive, you know, especially after a period of time where we had, you know, really low interest rates. So I was of the opinion that demand would rise to meet supply and we wouldn't have this problem of interest rates going to 7 or 8 or 9%.

Andrew Brill  0:55  
Hello, and welcome to Wealthion. I'm your host Andrew brill, we have some hot off the press economic data to pour over and roaring kiddies back. We'll analyze all of that right now.

We welcome in Jared Dillion to wealthy on Jared is the author of The Daily Dirt Nap financial newsletter. He's also an entrepreneur, trader, musician, writer, and an educator. Jared, welcome to Wealthion.

Jared Dillian  1:22  
Hey, thanks. Thanks for having me.

Andrew Brill  1:23  
You know, it's funny, I read somewhere a great quote from you that said something like you'd like to teach people how not to be stupid with their money. Everybody says, Oh, we want to teach you how to you know, the smart money. There's the smart money that but you're teaching people how not to be stupid with their money. And I love that. 

Jared Dillian  1:40  
Yeah, it's, yeah, I gotta tell you, people, people, there's, there's there's a lot you can do in terms of preventing bad outcomes when it comes to people managing their own finances, so

Andrew Brill  1:57  
Well, congratulations on the new house. I know you just moved in the end if for everybody watching Jared's office, probably the one of the cooler offices around. The book covers on the wall. And you know, your, your whole setup is awesome. So congratulations

Jared Dillian  2:13  
This was I am really happy with this. So I moved into this office on Monday. And it's a big space. Like you said, I got the book covers on the wall. I got my diplomas. I got the desk in the middle. I get a porch out here where I can smoke cigars. If I want to talk on the phone, like actually, over there. I have a podcast studio, which ordinarily, I would be doing this, but I don't. I don't have all my stuff yet. It's still in my old office, so. But yeah, like this is actually kind of a nice background with with all the trees in the back. And it's, you know, it's really nice.

Andrew Brill  2:50  
Yeah, it looks great. Well, congratulations, and all the best of luck to you in your new digs. So let's get right into it. CPI numbers out as we record this on Wednesday, fresh off the you know, hot off the press, and slightly down. I don't know, what do you make of 3.5 versus 3.4? 

Jared Dillian  3:10  
Well, I guess, I think you can kind of tell how people were positioned going into this based on the reaction after the number. I mean, in bonds, I think people were massively short, expecting a hotter number. You know, 2s, 10s, basically, across the curve, like everything rallied pretty hard on the release, it's come off a little bit since then. But, you know, I kind of had, I kind of had a sense that was going to happen, just the inflationary sentiment had picked up quite a bit. Going into just going into the CPI release. You know, commodities have begun rallying again. Copper has gone parabolic in the last couple of days. So I think people were expecting a really hot number. And, you know, even an inline number caused to your notes to rally like 10 or 12 basis points, so.

Andrew Brill  4:10  
Right, and they're the market obviously reacting What is your overall take on the economy right now? It seems to be you know, unemployment is kind of ticking up. And now it looks like the Fed. Although it's only been two numbers in a row that have come down. Now. The feds Labor's seem to be working and inflation is starting to come down. What's your overall take?

Jared Dillian  4:31  
Well, I think we're starting to see some early anecdotal signs of slowing. First of all, we get to claims number last week that was kind of crappy. That's one number that doesn't really mean anything. We need to get like three or four more numbers before. You can kind of look at the four week moving average of claims. So we need to see some more data there. Home Depot sales have been down six quarters in a row. I think that's an interesting data point. I I've been getting into arguments with my subscribers about Costco. You know, I said Costco probably has the most gearing to the economy than any other stock. And if there's a small downtick in sales, you know, it's trading at 45 times forward earnings. You know, you could see a big correction in Costco. So it's those, you know, economically sensitive retail stocks, that I think you have to watch for clues in the economy. You know, along with CPI today, we got retail sales, and that was actually terrible. I'm looking at this right now retail sales X auto and gas was down, month over month, it was down point 1%. So I, you know, once again, that's one number. But I think we're a lot closer to the end of this bull market than the beginning.

Andrew Brill  5:57  
So inflation is actually going to come down a little bit and you think we're going to the money that's on the sidelines is going to come and stay on the sidelines for a little while longer until the market comes down when it hit New intraday highs today with some of the, the, you know, the NASDAQ the s&p, they hit intraday highs, I believe so, you know, with this CPI news. So there's, I guess there's an opportunity for some of that cash that's sitting on the sidelines to get in. Not soon, but the not too distant future?

Jared Dillian  6:30  
Yeah, I agree. I agree.

Andrew Brill  6:33  
So in terms of the economic data, and the unemployment, and you brought up the Costco, end of it, isn't that more of a bargain shopper thing where people go looking for deals where they're going to spend money in places like that?

Jared Dillian  6:54  
Yes and no. It's I don't know if I have the words to explain this. Costco is kind of an interesting animal. Because yes, it is. It is a bargain place. But it's not $1 store, right? It's not it's it's not a like a downmarket place to shop. It's a wholesale outlet. And when people go there, they typically spend large sums of money, you know, multiple hundreds, even 1000s of dollars when they go to Costco I went, so I just moved into this new house, and we went to Costco. And the funny thing about Costco is, I didn't know this, I literally just got a membership. They only take Visa, they don't take MasterCard, they don't take American Express, they don't take discover, and I don't have a Visa card. So my only option was to pay cash. And so I brought a lot of cash, and I paid $1,300 in cash for a bunch of stuff at Costco. And I'm sitting here wondering, I'm like, how many other people do this? You know, like?

Andrew Brill  8:01  
Yeah, I agree. I, you go into Costco and think, oh, you know what, I just need a few things. And a ginormous shopping cart later, you've spent, you know, six or $700, like I did on Sunday or 1300? Like you did, so I guess you you don't get out of there unscathed. Yeah, you know, another measure of the economy. And I'm wondering if the Home Depot drop in, in sales has to do with the pandemic, where so many people are home and so many were people were doing work on their homes, that there's no more work to be done in the immediate future. So is that is it possible? There's a point where while they did so well over the pandemic months, that right now they're feeling the effects of that where people aren't doing as much work?

Jared Dillian  8:47  
For sure that I think because of the pandemic, they pulled forward, a lot of revenue. And so that's, that's actually a pretty good point, you know, declining sales at Home Depot, might not really be in indicator of the health of the economy, it just might be an indicator that they pulled forward so much sales and they have a high watermark, and now you know, they're below the high watermark, so.

Andrew Brill  9:10  
So with retail sales, obviously, retail sales are going down. People are spending less money is the assumption there. And it's there's unemployment is ticking up. So something seems to be working and not that you want to see people out of work. But it seems that, you know, with fewer people working, not that many fewer people working but fewer and more unemployment claims, you would think that those retail sales would go down even further and affect the economy even further, which is kind of what the Fed is looking for. 

Jared Dillian  9:45  
Yeah, it's what the Fed is looking for. I mean, getting into the Fed, you know, people I love to talk about the Fed. I think the Fed super interesting. I talked about the Fed all the time. Really what people are arguing about here is one potential cut, whether we get one cup before the election or nothing. And that's not, that's not a super interesting thing to argue about. You know, what was more interesting was in 2021, when the Fed started to raise rates, and they raised about four or 500 basis points in a year, and we were in a rate hike cycle. We're not, we're not really in a cycle right now. I mean, one of the interesting things about this is that fed funds have been unch for about eight or nine months, which is the longest that the Fed has not cut rates after a rate hike cycle. So the previous longest period of time was seven months, which happened in the mid 2000s. And we are now beyond that. So we've we've had five and a half percent Fed funds for the last nine months. And, you know, I, I kind of go back and forth on this. At the moment, I don't think we get a cut before the election. So I think we're going to have at least a year plus five and a half percent Fed funds, and we'll see what happens next year.

Andrew Brill  11:11  
And do you think people are getting used to the five and a half percent, it's been around, look, we, the more you do something, the more you get used to it. And we're in this economy now, that's, you know, it's five and a half percent, it's been there, the Fed is saying, Look, you know, what, that's where it's going to be, we're going to be higher for longer, and people are just getting used to it, will there come a point, in your opinion, where people will be like, okay, you know, this is what the rate is, I'm gonna go buy a house, I'm gonna go buy an apartment, or I'm gonna go buy a new car and finance that.

Jared Dillian  11:42  
Yeah. And I think, you know, I mean, look, the first house that I bought, I was 24 years old, in 1998. I had a seven and a quarter percent mortgage, right? And what, you know, mortgages got down to two and a half percent. And I think that you know, what, at the time, I was thinking to myself, like, how the hell did I afford a house with a seven and a quarter percent mortgage? But then, you know, I have, like, these old subscribers on my list, you know, that are like in their 60s and 70s. And they're like, Well, you know, in the 70s, I got a house at 14%, or something like that. Like, I guess what people don't understand is the economy doesn't grind to a halt. When you get higher interest rates, like even if we had eight, nine 10% mortgages, you know, sure, it would affect the real estate market, but people have to move people have to buy homes, they will buy homes, it'll affect valuations. But it's not as if we go into a depression because we have abnormally high interest rates. And like you said, people have become used to higher interest rates, they're getting comfortable with it, so.

Andrew Brill  12:54  
With those high interest rates, Jared, the increase in wages, is it's still increasing, but it's increasing at a lower rate. So there's a point where the unaffordability of some of these things, whether it be goods that you need to live on, or a home or stuff like that becomes less attainable. Is that also something the Fed looks at?

Jared Dillian  13:18  
Um, oh, I mean, for sure. They look at it. You know? Yeah, I mean, I think I don't know, like, I think they're very, I think they're very sensitive to that. I think they're very sensitive about raising interest rates more, but I gotta tell you, you know, back when interest rates were low, or zero, the conventional wisdom was that the economy would not be able to tolerate even one or 2% Fed Funds, like the economy would not be able to tolerate it, we would slip back into a recession. And here we are at five and a half percent Fed funds. And, you know, and there's a lot of theories on this, like people have said that maybe higher interest rates are actually stimulative. Right, like people have said, maybe the opposite is true. Maybe higher interest rates are stimulative. Maybe people have so much cash and money market funds that they're earning five and a half percent on, and it's actually providing a stimulative effect to the economy. So I don't know the answer to that. But we know raising interest rates 500 basis points hasn't really slow the economy down a lot, so.

Andrew Brill  14:32  
Is something like bonds someplace where people should be at you know, 5% these days? Not a terrible return? If you have a chunk of money that you're going to sink into that, you know, it's fairly safe. And is that a place where people should put their money these days?

Jared Dillian  14:49  
Well, I think people should have an allocation to bonds all the time, no matter what. You know, I have the awesome portfolio, which you probably heard about Sure, which is 20% stocks, bonds. Gold cash and real estate. And the number one question I get on the awesome portfolio is Why do you want an allocation to bonds? And my answer is you never know. Like we could go into a recession tomorrow. And tense could go from four and a half to two and a half. And if you didn't have an allocation to bonds you would miss out on it. Like we just cannot predict the future. So you have to have an allocation.

Andrew Brill  15:26  
Is that a leverage thing? If you have the 10s 10 year bonds? And let's say they're at 5%? bonds go down to two and a half percent? Are you able to sell those to somebody else?

Jared Dillian  15:37  
Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Andrew Brill  15:40  
So that's actually you know, it's probably a good asset to have. Conversely, I know that you in your your newsletter, you say gold sucks, but gold now, hovering around 2370. Could go higher? What's your feeling on gold?

Jared Dillian  15:57  
Yeah, so what's what's kind of interesting is that when an asset class is at all time highs, technical analysis kind of goes out the window. It's very hard to in gold in particular trades very technically, it's kind of hard to analyze trend extension. You know, people have put price targets on gold, they say it's gonna go to twenty five hundred, three thousand. It's kind of hard to tell, we traded it up to 2430, at the point at which Iran attacked Israel with that drone attack. And we traded off quite a bit. And now we're kind of I think we're kind of consolidating getting getting ready for a move higher. But in the last couple of weeks, anytime we've gotten up around 2370 2375, gold has gotten smacked down. And that happened to happen this morning. You know, that happened this morning. It traded up to 2378 after the CPI release. And now it's trading at 2361, so.

So it's fighting that number, that 2370, 2375 number, it's it's actually fighting that once it breaks through that you think it could go back to that 2400 number? 

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. 

Andrew Brill  17:17  
So let's talk a little bit about roaring kitty. And I know that you you wrote about some of this this morning, and he's been absent a little bit, probably about three years since the last time Gamestop went crazy, but one strange post, and everybody jumps back on board. I don't get it. And I don't think I'm smart enough to understand what a guy leaning forward in a chair means. But these memes stops. Jared, what? What do we make of these?

Jared Dillian  17:47  
Well, first of all, I think the most interesting part of this doesn't have anything to do with the markets. What's this guy's name? Gil, what's his name? Shawn Gil's something I can't remember. 

Andrew Brill  18:03  
Keith Gill.

Jared Dillian  18:04  
Keith Gill. He's pretty clever. Like, obviously, he's pumping the stock. Right? And but the SEC, I mean, like nobody, the SEC can go after him in court and say that a guy leaning forward, and the chair is a pump. You know what I mean? He's not, he's not saying anything. He's posting memes. He's posting gifts. Like, I mean, obviously, it's a pump, but like, it would never it would never hold up in court. You know, so, I mean, I don't know how much Gamestop he bought before he started doing this. You know, what was what was interesting the last time around? I don't think he needs I don't think he sold any, you know, and I think he sold none. So I kind of wonder if he's selling into this, like, I have no idea, so.

Andrew Brill  18:54  
wow, I because I know, I look, I watched the movie, and I lived through it just like you did. And I watched a lot of people make some money. And then there were some that obviously were shorting it, that lost their shirts and needed to be helped out. And those are the professionals. So I guess it works out. But is can the SEC do anything about this? You know, obviously he had to testify in front of Congress before. And but you know, posting something like that, look, if if I posted something, nobody's gonna give a darn. But this guy goes and post something like if you posted something strange people like, Oh, I wonder what Jared means by that. Maybe I should go out and buy, you know, a rocking chair stock. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. So it's a it's one of those things, but there's other stocks that you write about. And I know Google has been on your radar for a little while, and now they're going through layoffs. And there's another stock you know, it's it's funny because Google has become like the brand bandaid. It's like, oh, well, you know, somebody wants to know about oh, go Google it. And it's become that that brand name. 

Jared Dillian  20:05  
Yeah, I mean, 

Andrew Brill  20:06  
How long will it take to knock that off its pedestal?

Jared Dillian  20:08  
You know, it's funny. There's been a lot of high profile people, including Stan Druckenmiller, who've said, they don't even use Google anymore. They use perplexity, which is a new AI search engine. And I've used perplexity. So it's it is superior to Google. Google has 184,000 employees, perplexity has 55 employees, right. And what they have done is with 55 employees, they built a better mousetrap. It is a better search engine. But you know, like in my browser, like, if I go in the search bar, like, that's where Google is, like, if I want to go to perplexity, I have to navigate to the website, like Google is embedded in everything you do. So it's going to be interesting to see how, you know, somebody like perplexity or, you know, any of these other competitors can dislodge, you know, Google's dominance in search, and my, my position all along, is that Google will lose market share in search over time, you know, because as a company, culturally, they got complacent. They hired a bunch of people that don't really do anything. The culture is a mess. And ultimately, it's really the same company that it was 10 years ago, they haven't innovated. You know, I remember writing about Google in 2013 2014, when they were in the process of building out Google Maps and Google Drive and all these other services. And they really haven't done anything in the last 10 years.

Andrew Brill  21:44  
Because it's in their search engines already. You know, Apple has it whenever you open your browser, it's Google. You think that there's a possibility that perplexity could make a deal with some of these computer manufacturers? And you'd open your computer and it would be perplexity or, or purple or whatever they call their their search engine?

Jared Dillian  22:06  
Yeah, I think that is possible. I mean, that's kind of what I'm betting on, you know, I have puts on Google, which are not doing so well at the moment. But, you know, they're to your putts. And I'm happy to keep rolling them. So I mean, you know, Google has developed their own AI search engine, as everybody knows, which is Gemini. And Gemini has all sorts of problems. So yeah, I mean, I think this whole I think this will work long term.

Andrew Brill  22:36  
And I think that Google, not only Gemini, I think they came up with a second version of Gemini, trying to fix the problems that they had. So yeah, perhaps that you know, people listening, just go over to perplexity and check it out and see if that's something that they would want to use. And I want to ask you about Apple for a moment, because this is another company that's losing market share. Obviously, in China, they're struggling quite a bit. And AI, could AI boost them back up to where they need to be?

Jared Dillian  23:08  
I don't know. I mean, you know, Apple, I suppose it's possible. Apple is a hardware manufacturer, and you know, it's a great company, they've been able to maintain these absurd margins for a long period of time, they still have these absurd margins. I think Buffett was right to buy the stock seven or eight years ago whenever he bought it. But yeah, I mean, I don't Apple is a tough one. Apple is a tough one. 

Andrew Brill  23:41  
So Jared, I want to talk for a few minutes about the debt and the amount of treasuries that we're pumping into the economy. And at some point, there's got to be a breaking point, right? The the debt is scheduled to be about, I don't know, 116% of, you know, the economy by 2034. And is this sustained sustainable?

Jared Dillian  24:06  
Um, so just let me tell you a story. When I was first getting into the business in like 1999. I had a subscription to Barron's and as you remember, Alan Abelson used to write up and down Wall Street is like the opening column and Barron's, and he would go on about the debt all the time. So, you know, he would talk about not just government debt, but household debt and corporate debt. And he had this chart of total debt to GDP, and it was going from the lower left to the upper right. And he said, look like we're at 200% total debt to GDP. This is unsustainable, like the market is gonna crash, right? That was Alan Abelson. He was like this perma bear. And, you know, here we are now worth 360% total debt to GDP, and nothing has crashed. And households and corporates have actually de leveraged a lot like what's x where this is coming from is government debt. So look like when interest rates were spiking last year, intense got up around 5%, you could see that there was a lot of pressure on the bond market because of issuance, right? We had these huge auctions in issuance was weighing on the market, and it was causing interest rates to go higher. And I said at the time, you know, I was like, look like, you know, people thought that we would get failed auctions and issuance can go higher. But I said, you know, demand can rise to meet supply, right. And, you know, for a lot of people 5% on pens looks pretty attractive, you know, especially after a period of time where we had, you know, really low interest rates. So I was of the opinion that demand would rise to meet supply, and we wouldn't have this problem of interest rates going to seven or eight or 9%. So I still believe that. And, you know, even if 10s got to five and a half or six, it brings out a whole new class of buyers, right? So there's, there's a lot of bond bears out there who think we're going to have, you know, eight, nine 10% on 10s. Like, we might get there eventually, but it's going to take a very, very long time.

Andrew Brill  26:21  
So do you see this economy recovering? At some point, I mean, not not recovering the economy, as far as the market and everything is going very, very strong. But do you see it coming down to where the Fed wants it?

Jared Dillian  26:35  
Um, what do you mean?

Andrew Brill  26:37  
It right now it's at 3.4%. CPI, they want it down to two 

Jared Dillian  26:43  
oh, 

Andrew Brill  26:43  
It's struggling. It's, it's being very, very stubborn.

Jared Dillian  26:59  
You're not going to get inflation down to 2%. Without a pretty severe recession, that's what it would take. It would, it would have to be a very severe recession to get inflation back down to their target. And it's funny because there was a lot of internal discussions at the Fed, of whether they should raise the target from 2% to 3%. And they didn't, because that would have been an acknowledgement of defeat, basically, that they've given up on the 2% inflation target. But I think that sort of the whisper inflation target really is around 3%. Because if the inflation target was actually 2%, and we're running three and a half percent CPI, they would still be hiking rates here, but they're not, you know, so I think at the end, for the time being, they're satisfied with CPI in the three handle.

Andrew Brill  27:44  
So if the unemployment continues the way it's going, and there's less money circulating, because people are spending less money, that number will continue to come down, and they'll get close to the 3% number that that we're talking about. And that'll hopefully make them happy. The question is, once it gets to 3%, how long do they leave it there before they say, okay, you know what, now we can go 25 dips, or even 50 dips and figure, okay, you know, what, we brought it down. Let's see how it reacts. And go from there, like you, like you said in your newsletter, what's what would be worse? Is them to lower rates and have to hike them, or to hike rates and then have to lower them? Yeah. So it's a, it's, you know, they get stuck in that in that situation where, you know, what do we do once we get what we need?

Jared Dillian  28:37  
Yep. Yeah. Well, I think it would be much worse for them to lower rate to then have to hike them for sure. reputational ly. So I don't think we're gonna get that. Even with today's data, I don't think we're gonna get that rate cut before the election could be wrong. But that's what I think.

Andrew Brill  28:57  
Where do you see the economy? Obviously, they don't want to the Fed doesn't want to influence this election at all. And I know that that's in their back of their mind. But where do you see the economy going after November?

Jared Dillian  29:15  
Well, it totally depends. I mean, obviously depends on who gets elected. I think if Trump gets elected, it's more interesting because you have a president who is allegedly drafting plans to weaken the independence of the central bank, you know, in Trump explicitly wants interest rates lower. I think one of the first things he does if he's if he's president is if he fires Powell. And somebody like Kevin Hassett becomes Fed chair, at which point you know, Kevin Hassett would be a factotum and would probably lower interest rates at which point the yield curve would steepen dramatically. You'd see twos go from four to three and 10s go from four and a half to five and a half or six, you would see like a two or 300 basis points steepening in the curve. I think that would happen almost immediately, you would see a massive steepening after Trump got elected. With Biden, it's kind of more of the same. You know, high interest rates, growth outperforming value all the stuff that we've had for the last four years, like you just get more of the same, so.

Andrew Brill  30:34  
Where do you stand on Bitcoin?

Jared Dillian  30:36  
I don't stand anywhere in Bitcoin. 

Andrew Brill  30:39  
Or cryptocurrency? you're not, not interested at all?

Jared Dillian  30:42  
Well, I'm interested, but I'm not I'm not involved. I'm not involved at the moment. So I mean, look like, you know, the ETF demand got Bitcoin above 70,000. I think that's kind of tapered off at this point. I guess the only thing I would say about Bitcoin is I would much rather own gold, especially when it comes to geopolitical tensions. Because, you know, as we saw during this whole Israel episode, gold responded positively to geopolitical tensions, while Bitcoin responded negatively, you know, and Bitcoin is not, if it is a store of value, it's not behaving like a store of value, it's behaving like a tech stock. So if you're, if you're looking for a store of value, a hard asset to put in your portfolio, what you're going to do is you're going to make it more positively correlated with everything else in your portfolio, and you're going to make it more volatile. Gold will reduce the volatility of your portfolio.

Andrew Brill  31:44  
And the volatility index kind of dipped, says that we're going to continue to have volatility in the short term. So Jared, how are we making money today? How is you know, what are you advising people to do with their money? If they have it on the side? And, or even fixed income? You know, how are people making money today?

Jared Dillian  32:04  
I think that probably most people do not have a large enough allocation to commodities. Okay. For example, if Trump gets elected, and the Fed starts cutting rates, that is going to spark off a big boom in commodities, the dollar is going to get much weaker commodities will go up. And I think people's allocation to commodities is probably very low. It's probably in the single digits, the low single digits. So I think people are massively under exposed there.

Andrew Brill  32:37  
And that's part of your 20 20% rule. Yes, partly in commodities, and oil. Now, it I was kind of surprised that oil dipped down below $80 A barrel only because of the tensions in the Middle East and what's going on there. And with Iran, and all of that, you know, where is where does oil sit from here?

Jared Dillian  32:58  
I don't really have a strong view on oil. I was kind of wondering the other day, if the price of oil is kind of front running another drawdown in the strategic reserve. I think that's possible. Like there's not much left in the SPR. But we could get another drawdown of the SPR before the election. So I was kind of wondering if oil was kind of front running that. But other than that, I have no ideas.

Andrew Brill  33:25  
Jared, thanks so much for joining me. And I you know, I appreciate your work. And, you know, I enjoy the interviews that I get to watch. I watched your interview with Ed Malden, and about your book and I was enlightened by the fact that you say to people, you know what, go out and buy your $7 Starbucks coffee, but you know, you don't need to drive the Rolls Royce. And that's part of being not stupid with your money, right. Indulge yourself every once in a while. But, but do it in a smart way?

Jared Dillian  33:57  
Yeah, I mean, I got a cabinet over here full of like Nespresso pods that are like $1 apiece, but I drive a Toyota Highlander with 120,000 miles on it, so.

Andrew Brill  34:08  
There you go. So even even the people in the business that trade and all that stuff, they even very smart with their money by not being stupid, you know, Jared, thanks so much for your time. I really appreciate it. I had the daily dirt nap. Where can we I know we can read that. Where can we find you on social media? And where can we find the daily dirt net?

Jared Dillian  34:28  
Twitter, you can find me @ daily dirt nap. That's my handle. And if you want to subscribe to the newsletter, it's dailydirtnap.com.

Andrew Brill  34:37  
Right. Thanks so much for joining me. I really appreciate it.

Jared Dillian  34:39  
Thank you.

Andrew Brill  34:40  
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