If the Fed were to cut rates, will the price of gold surge? In this episode, James Connor sits down with Kathy Lien, Managing Director of BK Asset Management and renowned author of “Prop Trading Secrets,” and host of the BK Traders YouTube channel ( @BKForex ) . Kathy shares her expert insights on the US economy, gold prices, and her global market outlook. Did you like this video? Let us know in the comments!
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TIMESTAMPS: 0:00 – Introduction 2:30 – Discussion on US Economy and Q2 GDP 5:47 – Analysis of McDonald’s Earnings and Consumer Demand 7:03 – Oil Prices and Global Economic Slowdown 8:54 – Inflation Trends and Federal Reserve Policies 14:21 – Foreign Exchange: US Dollar and Global Currencies 17:20 – Japan’s Economic Resurgence and Currency Weakness 21:29 – Gold Price Predictions and Central Bank Buying 24:21 – Kathy Lien’s YouTube Channel and Trading Strategies 26:38 – Kathy Lien’s New Book: Prop Trading Secrets 28:54 – Market Predictions for the Coming Months 30:50 – Closing
Kathy Lien 0:00 With the prospect of US interest rates falling, the US dollar, you know, we are seeing its peak, I think that we're going to see, you know, more gains in gold prices. But it's not just that it's also the possibility of a deeper correction and stocks September, as, as one is historically, one of the worst months in the stock market, August is, is neutral to slightly negative. July tends to be a really good month for stocks. And we saw that so we're moving into a period where equities are vulnerable. And when equities are vulnerable, that tends to be really good for gold. James Connor 0:38 Hi, and welcome to wealthion, I'm James Connor. And today my guest is Kathy Lien and Kathy heads up foreign exchange at BK traders. And we're going to hear Kathy's views on the US dollar gold and the economy. Kathy is also a very prolific writer, and she just finished another book and she's going to tell us about it. Kathy, thank you for joining us today. How are things in New York? Kathy Lien 1:04 Things are great. Yeah, it's hot as it is everywhere. But we're enjoying the summer. James Connor 1:10 I am in Toronto. It's also very hot and humid here. But thank goodness, we have air conditioning, unlike the poor athletes in Paris right now. Kathy Lien 1:19 That is very true. James Connor 1:21 I don't know if you heard but they're trying, they were trying to make these Olympics more greener and sustainable. So they don't have air conditioning, a lot of the athletes had to bring in their own air conditioning units. Kathy Lien 1:32 You know, it's really funny, I was just in Japan. And we were talking earlier about how was basically 110 degrees in Japan. And they had a lot of outside workers. And what I found really interesting is that all of the outside workers wore these bubble suits. And these bubble suits had a fan inside them. And I thought it was brilliant. I feel like the Olympic Games, athletes should be wearing their own bubble suits, so that they don't have to suffer through all this. James Connor 1:57 Oh, well, that is crazy. I'm gonna have to look at up at the conclusion of this interview. I've never heard of such a thing. Well, let's get on and talk about the markets. Now. There's so much happening this week. And it's another big week for earnings, over 30% of the s&p is reporting this week, we have another Fed meeting coming up, we have the non firms coming out on Friday. And I'm looking forward to seeing what that unemployment number is going to be. So there's a lot to discuss here. And I want to start with the economy. We recently saw the q2 GDP number come out it came in quite high at 2.8%. Much stronger than q1, which was 1.6% after a revision. And I want to hear your views on the US economy. Do you think it's heating up again? Kathy Lien 2:39 That's a really good question. Because, you know, I don't necessarily think the US economy is heating up again, we see a lot of retailers warning about consumer demand the future we see a McDonald's, you know, most recently reported and how you know, they are you know, we're worried about demand as well, especially for I guess, high ticket items. McDonald's burgers aren't that cheap. And I guess the Big Mac prices are rising, and they're worried about the response to that. But what really is interesting, though, is that while these retailers are warning, as you said in the GDP number, and as well as in some of the earnings reports that we've seen, there hasn't been as much downside surprise, yes, these firms are worried about what consumer demand in the economy could look like three, six months down the line. But so far, we haven't seen that retrenchment, that broad based retrenchment that everyone is so worried about. James Connor 3:38 Yes, very interesting points, especially about McDonald's. I mean, if people don't want to spend five bucks on a meal at McDonald's, like they must be hurting. And I did read in their last quarterly numbers, it did say that the $5 meal plan only kicked in in the last three weeks of June. So it's going to be interesting to see how things progress. Kathy Lien 3:56 It's just a matter of time, though. I sincerely believe that, you know, we haven't seen the jobs report soften as everyone as much as everyone expected. Yes, jobless claims have parked higher. But we've seen, you know, also counter data and the jolts and other reports. And I think you know, non farm payrolls, as you mentioned, is coming up. And even if we get something below 200,000. One month of software numbers is not necessarily going to convince everyone that the labor market is weakening enough to justify or to reflect a significant slowdown in the economy. Everyone's painting the doomsday scenario talking about how, you know if we have a major increase in the unemployment rate above a certain amount that you know, has historically signaled that a recession is coming. But you know, so far as much as we may be worried, and I still am, we really have to see the numbers and I think what we are actually seeing though, is that companies are preparing for it either, both mentally as well as physically there To take initiatives to, to limit hiring the taking initiatives to cut their belts, we see it in the isn numbers as well. services, manufacturing, ASM numbers have also been softer. So we really just need to see it in the labor market numbers, I think to really cause panic in the markets and speaking of the markets and markets have not crashed either. So as long as the markets remain lofty to some degree, I mean, it's certainly no longer making new highs. But as long as it remains lofty, then you're not going to see that business and consumer sentiment crater as much as we think it should. But I still think, you know, we're just biding our time. And it's just that the slowdown that the Fed is warning about is coming. James Connor 5:47 And so I just want to clarify one thing that 2.8% that we saw in the GDP number, you think that was just a one off or an aberration? Kathy Lien 5:56 GDP is backwards looking. Right? So I think that, you know, yes, we had a good quarter, I think that the next quarter is going to be tougher, just because I think you're going to see a lot of effects of, of the economy being shown in the consumer data, as well as in the manufacturing data going forward. So yes, I do believe that, you know, we're going to see slowdown and growth. And that's really what you know, the rock is banking on it's really what traders are banking on. It's really what the Fed is banking on as a signal, a September rate cut. James Connor 6:30 I want to ask you about the price of oil now, because it's been hanging in between 70 to $80 a barrel. And there's a lot of speculation as to why it's still so low. And some people are saying is because of a slowing economy, a global economy and a slowdown in China, too. And others are saying, well, it has to do with money manipulation going on with the Biden administration, right? They're blending, they're selling more oil into the global markets, and that's keeping the price down or suppressing the price. Do you think well, what are your thoughts on the oil price here? Kathy Lien 7:03 I think that the slowdown in China and their lack of real substantial stimulus is playing a very big role. And the pressure that we're seeing in oil prices, they this month, they had the third plenum. And traditionally what this big meeting, the third plenum these plenums are supposed to provide is the platform to announce major stimulus packages. And the Chinese government fell short of that there was a lot of expectations going into this meeting. And even though they you know, see all of the red flags, they see their economy slowing, for one reason or the other, they have not decided to come out with that major fiscal stimulus package that the economy needs. So you know, stock markets have been disappointed. oil markets have been disappointed, and investors have been disappointed. So I think China plays a very large role in this. And, yes, they came out later on, and they kind of reduced, you know, some of their interest rates on the short term and long term basis. But it's not the on the ground fiscal stimulus that is needed to really jumpstart the economy. So I think that combined with the fear that the US economy is also so slowing. So it's a reality that China's slowing along with the fear that the US is slowly, I think, are playing the biggest role in the pressure on oil. Of course, you know, all the thoughts around what the Biden administration doing is not helping either. But I think the bigger story is really global growth. At the end of the day, James Connor 8:33 I want to ask you about inflation. Now this whole move in interest rates that we're always talking about is predicated on inflation, moving down toward this 2% target rate. It's currently around 3%. What are your views on inflation? Do you think the Fed is getting it under control? Or the government is getting it under control? Kathy Lien 8:54 I think no one is really getting it under the control. Because we don't just see it here in the US we see in many corners of the world. I mean, we have a Federal Reserve meeting this week. But we also have Eurozone inflation data. And that's kind of a clue as to the what inflation is around the world. And just as hard as they may be. And you know, they have been more aggressive in the monetary cycle, just as hard as they may be trying to fight inflation, inflation actually beat expectations in the latest report. And I think that this is the struggle that the Federal Reserve faces as well, which is, you know, they may be leaning on the weaker US growth and driving inflation lower, they may be leaning on the stronger US dollar and driving inflation lower and inflation has been lower, but they have certainly not gotten in control of this yet. And that's why they've been so resistant to cut interest rates for such a long time. And I think that's going to continue to remain the story because I believe that you know, right now, you know, they are still they're not confident that the trend of inflation is going to continue to move in the right direction by the magnitude that they need to offset the effects of a interest rate cut. And then to be really careful with that. James Connor 10:08 As you just mentioned, the US is hyper focused on getting the inflation rate down. But other countries, Canada, for example, and also in Europe, they have cut interest rates. And once again, they're more focused on growth, as opposed to inflation. So inflation is still running quite hot in Canada. But our Bank of Canada has cut interest rates twice. Do you think the US is making a mistake? Or do you think the Fed is making a mistake by not getting on top of this and not cutting rates? Kathy Lien 10:36 I think that they know they need to lower interest rates. And I couldn't say that they're making a mistake right now, because so far the data hasn't weakened. As much as the Canadian data had, for example, in the Canadian Labor Market numbers had soften quite a bit. And we've seen also softness and retail sales numbers, Eurozone has been depressed for some time, and actually only now we're beginning to see a little bit stabilization. But this morning, we had the German GDP numbers, and it showed a surprise contraction in the last quarter. So they are facing more critical weakness in data. So they're facing more critical weakness and data, whereas the US the data is still kind of mixed. And so as a result, I think you know, they have the luxury of time to really, you know, to handle this. James Connor 11:25 So we got to talk about the Fed that's going to come out with a report this, I believe, on the 31st. I guess there's a 5% probability that they might cut in, there's a much higher probability they're going to cut in September, what are your thoughts? Kathy Lien 11:40 I think that they're sending a very clear message that they're going to lower interest rates in September, and I think in their eyes. So the data that they've seen so far justifies the interest rate cut, because we are seeing a bit of slowing in the economy. Now the question is, if they cut in September, are they going to signal more to come? Or are they going to take a backseat and indicate that they continue to be data dependent, basically tried to diminish the impact of the interest rate cut, and I think that could happen. Now, we still have quite a bit of data. We have another inflation report, we had the non farm payrolls report, before this September be that actually we have two non farm payrolls reports before the September meeting. So we have the luxury of seeing an authentic luxury see whether that slowdown and inflation has really persisted, and whether the slowdown in the labor market is continuing. Now, if we do get some upside surprises in the non farm payrolls report, or the CPI numbers, you know, there could be more of a hawkish cut than a than what the market really wants to see. James Connor 12:49 This show is sponsored by better help. To feel my best. There's two things I do on a regular basis, I work out with a personal trainer, and I meet with a therapist working out keeps my body in shape. But working with a therapist keeps my mind in shape and keeps me thinking in a positive manner. Life can be crazy busy with family and work commitments, and managing your investment portfolio and just so much more. With fall that it's hard to fit in time to relax and have some fun. That's why it's important to keep your mind fit and focus as much as possible. Therapy can provide you with the skills which allow you to manage stressful situations more easily. If you would like to speak with a therapist or give it a try, consider better help. It's all online and fully flexible according to your schedule. never skipped therapy day with better help, visit better help.com/wealthy on to get 10% off your first month. That's better help H elp.com/wealthy. On now back to the show. So I want to talk about foreign exchange. Now that is your focus. And I want to get your views on the US dollar and the US dollar in relation to other currencies. And I guess the US dollar has been relatively strong Now Trump, he's of course he's campaigning. And one of the policies he's saying he's going to implement if he becomes president, is that he's going to weaken the US dollar and therefore stimulate manufacturing at home. And I want to get your views on that. Unknown Speaker 14:21 Yes, I mean, I think that is one of the greatest potential impacts if he wins the election, which is that unlike, you know, Biden or some other presidents who have have stood steadfast to the US a strong dollar policy of Trump as well as Vance, have been quite clear that they support a weaker dollar. And so, you know, there is a while the President does have a direct impact on you know, dollar policy, and you know, the direction of the dollar is much more contingent upon where interest rates are headed than trade policy, especially in near term trade. policies, I think, you know, as a result of the election outcome, if Trump wins, that we could certainly see a knee jerk decline in the dollar, the dollar has had a really great run, and 2024. We're nearing the election. And I think that you're starting to see an unwind in the greenback. And if we do see, the polls show, a clear Trump victory that could also facilitate a further unwind, especially if it is tied with a Fed easing cycle. So I think that the landscape that we're seeing on a political as well as economic and monetary perspective does start to favor dollar weakness in the second half of the year. James Connor 15:42 Yes, and you are correct when you say to sell driven by interest rates, and that's what we're seeing in Canada right now. Because our bank has already cut rates twice. So the value of our currency is going down versus the US dollar, and I can't even afford to go to the US anymore, I gotta mortgaged my house to take a trip to the US. It's crazy. Kathy Lien 16:02 And that's why I'm headed to Canada in a couple of weeks. Because for Americans, it's been such a great deal. As I said, earlier, I was just in Japan. And you know, not only is the currency 14% cheaper than where it was a year ago. But on top of that, you get a 10% duty free refund. So in essence, you know, it's the duty free, I think the minimum for charging at the duty free refund is 33 US dollars, which is basically nothing on a regular purchase. So tourists are spending significantly, and Americans are traveling all around the world. And I think that the you know that this is going to come to an end. So you know, Americans have the opportunity to travel definitely get out there. James Connor 16:44 Yeah. And just as a reminder to our American viewers, when I go to the US, I gotta pay $1.37. Okay, so I'm effectively paying 37% more for everything in the US. And, of course, when you come to Canada, it's going to be that much cheaper. So now, you mentioned Japan, let me get your views on Japan, because you think most people know that Japanese stock market has been making new, all time highs, it's taken 40 years to take out the highs that we saw in 1989. So I'm curious as to why what's happening within the country, what's happening with the economy? And maybe you can also speak to the currency? Kathy Lien 17:20 Yes. So it's all interrelated. And that's really the great thing about markets, which is that the reason why the Nikkei has done so well, is because the Japanese Yen is so weak. And so that's really facilitating a lot of demand for Japanese goods, there have been a lot of retailers like Burberry and Carrick, which owns Gucci, basically report a decline in sales all around the world, except for Japan. And that is single handedly due to the weakness of the Japanese yen. Of course, Japan is also coming out of a very long period of stagnation. And there's been a lot of investment into the younger generation Japan has long everyone knows that Japan's very culture of, of elderly people. And you know, it's got a very old population who've been in the workforce very, very long time, a lot of them are starting to retire. And so the government realizes this, and they're spending money investing in startups investing in the newer generation, so that they can revive the economy when that happens. So all of it is interrelated. And you know, we are seeing a resurgence in many countries like Canada and the US retail sales have been mixed. They haven't been that great. And Japan, retail sales are really picking up. They also have recently, their, their labor unions have negotiated wage increases. And it's been a long time since we've seen wage increases in Japan. So that is also translating into domestic demand. So we are seeing, you know, significant changes in Japan's domestic economy and, you know, the attractiveness of, you know, Japanese goods at the same time, making the Nikkei, you know, as high as it is. So it's all interrelated, because a large part of that is also due to the weakness of the Japanese yen. I want to add, you know, there was a very interesting, I was talking to some businesses out there, it's very interesting story that one of the businesses told me, which is that for a very long time, as many people may know, japanische has struggled with deflation, meaning that prices have been falling, they've been unable to raise prices, and a lot of that is due to culture as well. And he told me that about eight years ago, which was a long time ago, there was a candy company that raised the prices by 10 yet which is the equivalent about six or seven cents, and they had a press conference, all the employees bowed and apology that was a really, really big deal. Even in February of last year, when another company similar candy company tried to raise prices. They released a really remorseful press release about why they had to do this. Nowadays there's no excuses, they just raise prices and that they excuse is the Japanese yen, and they don't even think twice about it. And this is a significant shift in the culture that is leading to inflation rising, that is helping the general economy improve, because it's allowing for wage increases, it's allowing for prices to no longer hold at these low levels. And when these big businesses are actually raising the prices, allows the small folk, you know, the the mom and pop, you know, sushi shop that's on the corner, to also raise their prices. And so this is the right direction for a lot of these businesses and the economy. And it's a shift that we're just beginning to see this year. And this weekend is giving them an excuse to do so. James Connor 20:41 Now, I've never been to Japan, I would love to go. But if I was going to go to one city in Japan, what would you suggest? Unknown Speaker 20:49 Well, you know, Kyoto is quintessential, I think, historic Japan, it's absolutely beautiful. But if you want the buzz, Tokyo is where it's at, it's really hard to say I was there for two and a half weeks, and it was barely enough time to scratch the surface of the major cities. But it's a truly beautiful country. James Connor 21:08 And I love sushi is the sushi much better in Japan than it is in North America? Kathy Lien 21:12 It is and not only that, you know, there's so many places that are 100 yen for a plate of sushi, which is basically 75 cents. And you know, it's the freshest sushi that you can get and 75 cents a plate. James Connor 21:29 Wow, I'm definitely going to have to do a trip there. Okay, I want to move on now. And I want to get your thoughts on gold, because we can't talk about the US dollar without discussing gold. And there's a very strong negative correlation between the US dollar and gold, gold is still up, I think around 15% on the year. And this move is once again predicated on lower interest rates, which will result in a lower dollar and a higher gold price. But I want to get your views on gold right now. What are your thoughts? Kathy Lien 21:57 I think that's where it is. It's exactly what you said, which is that with the prospect of US interest rates falling, the US dollar, you know, policy, the seeing its peak, I think that we're going to see, you know, more gains and gold prices. But it's not just that, it's also the possibility of a deeper correction and stocks September is, is what is historically one of the worst months in the stock market, August is, is neutral to slightly negative July tend to be a really good month for stocks. And we saw that so we're moving into a period where equities are vulnerable. And when equities are vulnerable, that tends to be really good for, you know, gold. And so I think, you know, going into September, a little less August, but more into September, we should see, you know, more demand for diversification. As investors look at interest rate cuts and look at slowing growth, they look at the weakness and the lack of return and equities. And they turn to gold for diversification. James Connor 22:55 And I gotta ask you about the central bank line, because this is another reason why it's been moving higher. But in 2022, and 2023. 25% of all gold production has come from central banks. And I guess my question to you is, do you think the central banks are keeping prices artificially high by acquiring it so aggressively, because when you look at the gold equities, or the gold mining stocks, they're not pricing in $2,400 gold, the price they're factoring in is much lower, like 16, depending on the stock and whose research we're looking at, it could be anywhere from 1600 to 1800, Kathy Lien 23:31 I think absolutely central bank buying has been one of the greatest supporting factors for gold. And I don't think that that's going to change anytime soon. I think the political landscape and who becomes the President, for the next four years is going to affect that as well as US International Relations, you know, start to affect Central Bank buying. But for the most part, I think, you know, a lot of countries around the world, especially the ones that don't have the most favorable relationships with the US have seen a good reason to diversify out of US dollars. And if they see the landscape, and they see that the dollar is potentially weakening, which you know, before they may feel like it's more FOMO, they're missing out on the strong dollar rally. Now they're seeing the Federal Reserve is stepping up to the gate and they're lowering interest rates, and there's diminishing returns in the greenback, that may give them an even stronger case to diversify the gold. James Connor 24:21 I want to ask you now about your YouTube channel. And just so the viewers know you have a YouTube channel is called BK Forex. And on that channel, you interview a lot of traders across many different asset classes. And I'm curious when you talk to all of these traders. Is there a consensus on how they feel about the s&p and the Nasdaq right now in terms of valuations or both the economy? Kathy Lien 24:43 Well, we don't yet interview traders for our YouTube channel. Our YouTube channel is focused on providing trading tips trading strategies, talking about the markets I did a couple of videos on what's going on in Japan. Also talking about you know how to trade and you know, different up opportunities, we will be putting up a trader interviews in the future, but not at this stage. I do talk to traders a lot every single day because you know, I'm in the market. And we have a lot of clients that are active traders. And a lot of them, you know, quite honestly, are day traders. So they're much more interested in the short term opportunities in the market. Now, what's interesting is that even though most of them are day traders, focusing on the charts on technical analysis, they're always coming to me asking me about what you're saying, which is, you know, overall, what is the direction for the markets? What's the big story? What's the economic outlook? What's the data? And I think that reflects their concern about the concern about, you know, what is the outlook for the US economy, and they're concerned about the durability of the previous s&p and NASDAQ rally, whether or not we're going to see the NASDAQ fall further, and they using this as contacts to lean heavier into one trade versus the other. And as you know, as traders, we are all, you know, fully aware that bear markets, you know, are much more aggressive, quick and steep and deeper than bull markets, which take their time. So as we move into this phase, where we could potentially be moving into a period of a slippery market, so that can be you know, pretty risky to trade. I think that, you know, everyone's trying to think about the way to strategically place their entries and exits, or take advantage of that. James Connor 26:30 And you're also a very prolific writer, you've written many books, and you have a new book coming out here in a few months. Tell us about that book. What's the topic? Kathy Lien 26:38 Yes, so I have just finished my sixth book with John Wiley and Sons. And so you know, when my books are written, usually they're sold on Amazon and Barnes and Nobles at the airports and translate into many different languages. This latest book is called prop trading secrets how successful traders are living off the markets, there's been a huge resurgence in prop trading for the individual trader, where individual traders are seeing the opportunity for tips, particularly younger traders, the mid 20s, early 30s are seeing the opportunity in trading futures, NASDAQ, yes, and also the opportunity in trading gold and currencies. And they're starting to learn how to do it. And this book talks to seasoned traders, traders who have been in the industry for you know, either decades or and traders who have won in multiple trading competitions, we have two gentlemen who are, who have won international trading competitions, one that's a 33 time champion, one that's a 10 time champion, we have multiple full time traders, churns fund managers, one of the guys we really enjoyed talking to was when he was a teenager, he was one of the top ranking World of Warcraft players. And he translated a lot of those skills to trading as well. And we talked, you know, I talked to him about that. And then we have a large number of traders who have just learned to trade and the past, you know, three to seven years who are finding success getting funded. And also you're sharing the trading tips and strategies with, you know, people who are just starting out. James Connor 28:18 Ah, well, that sounds like an interesting book. And I will definitely look out for that. I'm sorry, when did you say it's going to be released. Kathy Lien 28:23 So I just finished it has been a labor of love, and, of course, six couple months in order for everything to be put together. So I think it'll be ready January of 2025. James Connor 28:33 Yeah, we should look forward to that. So before I let you go, one or two, we just summarize what you think is going to happen this week and in the coming months in terms of the market. So why don't we just start with the upcoming Fed meeting, and then give us your views on the s&p and the NASDAQ, and where you think they're gonna go as we go into year end, and also on the US dollar and the price of gold? Kathy Lien 28:54 Okay, so with the Federal Reserve meeting that's coming up for the meeting in July, the Federal Reserve, you know, no changes are expected. You know, that's pretty much a given. So what the Fed says will be so much more important than what the Fed does. And with Powell, I think, you know, he's going to say and acknowledge the weakness that's happening in the US economy, but I don't think he's going to fully commit to September recap, because as you pointed out, GDP numbers have been harder, the core retail sales numbers have been harder. And so, you know, he's going to reluctantly indicate that easing needs to happen in the late third quarter, early fourth quarter. So, you know, in terms of how the markets will react to that, I think, you know, the stock market will still suffer to kind of be probably lifted by the prospect of easing and, you know, that's what traders are really going to focus on. Now, in terms of where the stock market is headed for the rest of the year. You know, in September, you know, when we when everyone comes back from the summer holidays, that tends to be the toughest month, September October tend to be the toughest months for this Stock market. So the markets are going to struggle, I think that's going to coincide with weakness and US data. Now, whether or not it finds stabilization will hinge upon whether the interest rate cuts happen and whether there's guidance for more to come and whether we actually see stabilization in the economy. But I think the downside risk is going to be much more significant than the upside potential. And I think, you know, you have to be very careful, you know, bank accounts, you know, the US are offering 5% return on your accounts. That's a very, very attractive yield, I would consider moving some of your funds into that. And then, lastly, as for gold, because, you know, I think that the US dollar has seen its peak, I think that we're gonna see more risk aversion, I believe that that's going to support gold, and it's going to encourage, you know, an end of year rally in gold prices. James Connor 30:50 Well, that was a great summary. Thank you. And as we wrap up, if someone would like to learn more about you and your various services, or even your books, where can they go? Kathy Lien 30:59 Yes, so you can go to our YouTube channel, youtube forward slash BK forex. Also, I post a lot of great information on my Twitter, which is Kathy Lien FX. And you can always check our website BKtraders.com. James Connor 31:13 Kathy, once again, thank you. Kathy Lien 31:15 My pleasure. James Connor 31:16 Well, I hope you enjoyed that discussion with Kathy lien, I am definitely going to check out her upcoming book which is focused on conversations with professional traders. It sounds quite interesting. If you're trying to figure out how to prepare for your financial future, consider having a discussion with a wealthion endorsed financial advisor at wealthion.com. After providing some basic information wealthion will put you in touch with a vetted advisor. 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