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Discover the hidden truths behind the stock market’s resilience, inflation’s real impact, and the disruptive power of AI and meme stocks. Join Andrew Brill as he interviews Phil Rosen, co-founder and editor of Opening Bell Daily. Phil is a seasoned financial reporter with experience working with Business Insider, Inc, and other financial outlets. In this episode, Phil shares his expert insights on the current state of the US economy, highlighting the resilience reflected in the stock market despite widespread economic uncertainty. He addresses the discrepancy between official inflation statistics and the real-life impact on consumers, emphasizing how cumulative price gains are felt in everyday expenses. The conversation also explores the fascinating world of meme stocks, focusing on the story of Roaring Kitty and GameStop. Phil discusses how a single trader’s bold moves and the ensuing retail investor frenzy have disrupted traditional market dynamics, raising questions about market manipulation and sentiment-driven investments. Additionally, Phil offers his perspective on the AI revolution, noting the relentless hype surrounding AI advancements and their potential long-term impact on the market.

Phil Rosen  0:00  
Stocks are hovering near all time highs now and there's still mountains of cash to be deployed. I think that suggests up. And most most of the strategists I've been speaking with have said effectively the same thing. Because if you Yeah, if you I think it's something like 6 trillion right now, in these money market funds, once interest rates start going down, then people will want a higher return on their investments. So they'll look to the stock market. And that seems pretty natural. You know, the Federal cut rates, all that money will get deployed, or at least even if just some of it gets deployed. It looks like there's there's quite a bit of upside ahead.

Andrew Brill  0:50  
I like to welcome Phil Rosen to wealthion. Phil is the co founder and editor of opening bell daily. He's previously written for Fortune BuzzFeed, and most recently Business Insider, amongst a whole bunch of other things that I'll ask Phil about.

Phil, welcome to wealthion.

Phil Rosen  1:11  
Hey, Andrew, thank you for having me. Really appreciate it.

Andrew Brill  1:14  
So yeah, look, I know you've done a ton of financial reporting. And, you know, opening bell daily tell us about opening bell, Bell daily and where it came from and where you expect it to go? 

Phil Rosen  1:27  
Yeah, we actually just hit the two month mark yesterday. So we're still very, very early on this financial media outlet. But as you mentioned, I was most recently with Business Insider as a markets reporter. And then my co founder and I launched opening bell daily two months ago, because we want to bring great financial news and reporting to readers at no cost. Because I think, you know, this is some of the most important and pressing financial times we're living in right now. But so much of that information is hidden behind a paywall. If you go to the journal or Bloomberg are the Financial Times, it's, you have to buy these premium subscriptions. So we're delivering it all for free. And that's, that's an important mission. And also, I think the reader response has been great so far. And yeah, I'm excited to chat, finance and markets today.

Andrew Brill  2:25  
And where can we find opening bell daily?

Phil Rosen  2:28  
If you Google it, it'll come up. And if you go to my Twitter, just at Phil Rosen or LinkedIn, you know, it's very findable. I'm very findable online, all these articles are pretty much posted every single day. And we also are syndicated on Ink Magazine. So you can see my morning column on ink as well. 

Andrew Brill  2:50  
So, I know through your financial reporting, and you're not an economist, so we're not going to frame it that way. But through your financial reporting, what is your view of the economy right now? What are people telling you about the economy right now?

Phil Rosen  3:07  
Yeah, it really depends who I'm talking to. So if I'm talking to economists, most economists say that the economy, US economy looks very resilient. And things are actually on track for a soft landing. And that's, you know, that's sort of been the view for the past six months or so. And the interviews I do and the writing I'm doing. But if you look at surveys of everyday Americans, and those who are not economists, they have a much bleaker view of how things are going. And that's something I've been writing about a lot, actually this sort of discrepancy between how the economists are reading and seeing the data versus how everyday Americans are actually feeling. And, you know, a big point of contention that I'm trying to clarify for readers right now is inflation. You know, there's all this chatter of inflation being down from its 9% Peak a couple years ago to about three and a half percent now. And, you know, you hear policymakers talking about inflation is cooling. But then, if you look at the cumulative price gains in the last three years, they're almost 20%. And that's something that I think people are feeling in their wallets. And it doesn't quite mesh with the news, when it says inflation is cooling. Now, it's, you know, dip in towards 3%. People don't feel that because they see prices being 20%, higher than three years ago, cumulatively, and that's, that's a big, that's a big topic these days, that sort of difference there.

Andrew Brill  4:45  
Yeah, that cost of living is certainly certainly causing us a little angst and that sort of thing. But in an article the end of May, you talked about markets and the cost On Me diverging and how the stock market the economy they say is slowing, slowing, slowing. But the the the stock market hitting new highs, the s&p Yeah down a little bit from a tie. But there seems to be a separation here. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Phil Rosen  5:16  
Yeah. And, you know, if you look at all these Wall Street firms, you got Morgan Stanley and UBS and others, they've actually been raising their stock market forecasts for the end of the year. And that's come as sort of this soft landing chatter has increased, I suppose. And a lot of that has been driven by the very strong earnings we had in the first quarter. And that's boosted a lot of economists and strategists outlooks for stocks. But the divergence, I think, is sort of that what you have this pain point as far as what people actually feel in the economy, but then you look at how their portfolios are doing. And it's extraordinary, because we've been in this great bull market, and everyone is getting actually more optimistic about the stock market. And I think there was the latest Bank of America survey. For global fund managers, it showed cash allocations were 4%. 

Andrew Brill  6:19  
Yeah, that's crazy. 

Phil Rosen  6:22  
So that's actually, you know, for context, that's very low, generally speaking. And when it dips below 4%, it's actually a contrarian sell signal, because it means there's actually too much optimism on stocks because cash allocations are so low. So it's very, I think the story of the economy markets right now is that all these signals are actually at odds with each other. There's so much conflicting narrative and data here. And another detail that I found interesting was that there's something like 6 trillion in cash sitting on the sidelines that is waiting to be deployed, either in markets or other investments. And that doesn't exactly it's very hard to square that with people dealing with high cost of living and inflation and struggling to pay their bills. So all these things are very hard to parse. And I've certainly had a challenge, trying to write about it every single day. And, you know, hopefully, it's, it's really trying to pull all the data together. And then it's like, sort of chewing gum and walking at the same time, you know, you have to be content that stocks are going up, but also that the economic pain is real. And here, so it's, it's very confusing, actually.

Andrew Brill  7:51  
Yeah, I found that interesting in your article as well, about the 6 trillion sitting on the sidelines, when we Taisei, sitting on the sidelines, actually sitting there doing nothing. But because bond prices are so high, and the interest in a bank is right now hovering right around 5%. It's not sitting doing that these people actually make money with that money. They're, you know, this 6 trillion is in money market funds, this is actually making them a decent amount of money. Look, you know, retirement when you look at retirement a few years ago, now, you know, if I'm getting three and a half 4% of my money, great. I can live off that if I've saved enough. Now they have this money in a money market. They're like, Oh, you know, I have all this extra cash. I don't need to put it in equities. Yeah, the equities are growing at a much faster rate. But this seems to be a little bit safer, until the interest rates come down. And when you go back to where we were getting, you know, .01, .02% on our on our savings accounts.

Phil Rosen  8:45  
But the interesting thing there is once interest rates come down, stocks will probably you know, the expectation is stocks will go even higher, because that's such a catalyst for you know, this sort of bullish outlook is when the Fed cuts rates. So, interest rates will come down, but then stocks could see even bigger jumps. So yeah, it's part of this big story of what the hell is going on. And none of this really fits with one another.

Andrew Brill  9:13  
I found that a great stat in one of your articles about when we've had a positive first quarter, and a slow APR 11 out of 11 times, June has been positive. So especially in an election year, with that we're in now where people pour money into different things. That bodes well for this month, that's for sure.

Phil Rosen  9:36  
I think so. I mean, generally, you know, a lot of data points like that to be fair. I do find them sometimes a bit. cherry picked. And you know, I write about it. journalists write about all the time, but it's, there's so many unique cases where you can say okay, if X, Y and Z happened stocks go up and Um, there's so many data points who right now that I think that's really created this overwhelmingly bullish sentiment. And, you know, it's probably every other day I see some new stat about, okay, if this month was up and this month was down in an election year of, you know, the moon was doing this, then stocks will go up. And so it's I think you have to take all of this with a grain of salt, because you could really, you could find data to tell any story you want at, you know, if you look at the past century of market history, you can find something that will pretty much deliver the message you want to tell. And yeah, it's overwhelmingly bullish right now, I would say, but I'm sure if you wanted to make a bear case with a few cherry picked points, like you probably could pretty effectively.

Andrew Brill  10:56  
So we have all this money sitting on the sideline and the stock market is doing really well. The numbers indicate that there could be one, maybe two interest rate cuts this year, I know that that's the great debate is like, Okay, where did the number what does the number have to get to before the Fed blinks? Once this money that's in money markets goes back into the market? And the indication from your reporting where the market could go?

Phil Rosen  11:23  
Well, I mean, it's, uh, you know, stocks are hovering near all time highs now. And there's still mountains of cash to be deployed. I think that suggests up, and most, most of the strategists I've been speaking with have said effectively the same thing. Because if you Yeah, if you I think it's something like 6 trillion right now, in these money market funds. Once interest rates start going down, then people want a higher return on their investments. So they'll look to the stock market. And that seems pretty natural. You know, the Federal Court rates all that money will get deployed, or at least even if just some of it gets deployed. It looks like there's there's quite a bit of upside ahead.

Andrew Brill  12:14  
Have you seen markets like this? I almost feel like the market is almost recession proof only because, look, I just recently I spoke to Professor Steve Hanke, who's a master in Applied Economics. And he says, nope, recessions, coming recessions couple, we've looked at the numbers, we see everything recessions coming. But if that happens, there's a lot of cash sitting around, that people really put to work and make more money in the stock market. I feel like this is different than other times around when the stock markets have taken pretty bad hits. Look, I remember, you know, times when the market has dropped 10 12%. And people are running for the hills. But I feel like if that happens, there's all this cash to put to work. 

Phil Rosen  13:00  
Yeah, I mean, the, you know, the last year, maybe two years, we've seen these recession calls plenty of times, and the market has pretty much shrugged it off every single time and just continued to climb. And look, there's a lot of resilience, I think in the economy right now. And maybe the market is reflecting that or expecting that to continue based on how strong it's been. And I think I read a note from the economist, Ed Yardeni. He's expecting s&p 1000 By the end of the decade. And you know, so So I think the recession proof market. I don't know if that's the word I would use, but it's certainly. Yeah, it's been fairly unstoppable, I would say and, but also, we haven't had the official recession call yet. So maybe things will change, change in markets, if that recession does, in fact, happen as far as showing up in GDP and the labor market, etc. But so far, so good.

Andrew Brill  14:08  
So you had an interesting article out about meme stocks, and roaring Kitty and how, how can one guy when it be late a stock where he's making, you know, seasoned investors and funds lose billions of dollars? It boggles my mind. 

Phil Rosen  14:30  
Yeah. And, you know, I think it's so interesting, even you use the word manipulate, and it's very hard to say and hard to parse, who's doing what here and this was, you know, I think the trading platform is on you trade is weighing whether to kick him off. I think that's very interesting. And I think there are some regulators looking into his social media posts and the timing of his trades. But if you Consider what he's posting. They're just photos and kind of random stuff, the you know, memes. And he posted, you know, if it's his account, still run by him the screenshot of a very large position in GameStop. And that sent the stock higher or the stock went higher after that was posted. It would be so unusual and pretty unprecedented to call that market manipulation because he's not actually telling anyone to do anything. It's sort of just this unspoken thing that, you know, you got a bunch of retail investors rallying behind him, like three years ago, the same thing happened when sort of Gamestop became the first meme stock. And yeah, I do think it's a bit. I don't think it's that fair to call it market manipulation, because really just, you know, maybe he's just some guy sharing his positions. And he's not telling anyone, anything, he's not ordering or commanding. And I'm not sure how solid a case the regulators would have, if they tried to go after him for this. But, you know, part of it, I think it appears he's just crushing it as a trader. And, you know, maybe it's tough for regulators to stomach that, because he's been, you know, relatively, not even relatively just extremely successful over the last couple of years.

Andrew Brill  16:22  
As far as I know, he's just a single investor, he doesn't have a problem he doesn't. He's not a financial analyst or anything like that. But you know, when it when it first started a few weeks back, and he posted what I guess looked like someone sitting forward in their seat with a game controller, I had no idea what this meant. And a viewer said, Well, that's, that's him saying, I'm in. And I was like, okay, you know, if that's what he's saying. And that's the mean, he's putting out you can read that I looked at it, and I don't know what this means. I'll be honest, I don't own any Gamestop never have. But there's people that are making good money with that stock. And there's also people shorting it that are losing a lot of money. So I just, I wonder, how is it that this caught on and people are now back because I go, Keith Gillis back roaring kiddies back, let's follow him and see where this goes.

Phil Rosen  17:18  
Well, I think he it's very unusual to make such a large bet. That's so offsides, and then be correct. But you really only need to do that once to become sort of a legendary trader. And he did that three years ago. And it was such a huge contrarian bet at the time. And he made so much money off of it. And really, you know, there was the big David and Goliath narrative around all of this, too. And it's, yeah, it's very unusual when you see a sort of this legendary trader, or at least in the eyes of retail investors. And then he goes dark for three years. And it's like, when he comes back, that can only mean okay, it's game on again, you know, at least in the eyes of some retail traders, and this, yeah, the chatter on Twitter and on Reddit is extraordinary, like the the enthusiasm and some of the positions that people are posting that they are taking in GameStop. And yeah, I think if those rolling kiddie if he holds his options until they expire, he'll be something like the fourth largest shareholder of GameStop. And he's, you know, he really is just a guy. And, you know, he's not an institution, but he's right up there with all the institutions as far as this one position. And that's, yeah, there's been nothing like it. And it's very hard to conceptualize, actually.

Andrew Brill  18:55  
In your reporting, how important is it? Look, I know Gamestop I used to be in my head, little kids at the time, you know, their Game Boys, and then their ex box and all that stuff. We used to go into GameStop. But the Gamestop near my house is closed up and is gone. I know a lot of them have closed up and they're gone. Phil, how important is it just look at fundamentals and not ride these waves because just as quickly as it goes up, it can come down just as fast. 

Phil Rosen  19:23  
Yeah, and I think actually with Gamestop you have to not look at the fundamentals because there seems to be no fundamental story here. It's really just you know, Rowan kitty says he likes to stock and then you have armies of traders buying in I think because of that pretty much and there's not really a there's no technical analysis or, you know, underlying value here that you can point to, and it's I think a lot of it's also an astrologer because a lot of you know, A lot of people remember going to Gamestop as a kid or as a teenager. And that's tied to like this sentiment around. Okay, we should save this company or bolster this, the balance sheet of this company, especially when it's so heavily bet against by institutional players. And yeah, I would say, you, it would be very stress inducing to try to even find the fundamentals here. You know, I certainly couldn't do it. And I'm really just observing, and it's yeah, they already made a movie about it. So there's nothing. You know, it's, there's a saying it's like the most, the most entertaining outcome is the most likely and we're I think we're sitting in it right now. 

Andrew Brill  20:47  
As a financial reporter. How much does it bother you that there's, there's no facts, right. As a reporter, you're looking for the facts. You want to report the facts that backup the story? Both pause, there's a winner, there's a loser. Here's the facts. There's no facts here to report. It's all. Okay. This guy said this. 100,000 people went out and bought GameStop. That's not a fact. That's craziness. 

Phil Rosen  21:15  
It yeah, it is. It is definitely crazy. But how would you know how much of markets is sentiment driven? And this is like, the ultimate example of how, you know, psychology and sentiment plays into investing. And yeah, how it's like how many people buy into Apple stock, after looking into their fundamentals versus just the general consensus of everyone else likes this. So I'm going to also buy into it. And this is like, a niche, an extreme example of that, I think, like the fact is, yeah, maybe the facts aren't numbers in this case, but the facts are, a lot of retail investors seem extremely passionate and enthusiastic about this one name, despite its lack of fundamentals. And yeah, so the sentiment is the facts here, and it is super unusual. But also, when you talk about sentiment in markets, it's always such a big influence. And but this is like, yeah, just an unusual example of it. 

Andrew Brill  22:25  
Have we gotten to the point with Keith Gill, where if he said, Okay, you know what, I'm moving away from GameStop, I'm gonna move to a Birkenstocks. He's gonna sit, he's gonna kick up his feet and show his Birkenstocks on his desk. It doesn't say go buy, go and buy it, but puts up his Birkenstocks on the desk, people are gonna run out and buy Birkenstock stock.

Phil Rosen  22:49  
Yeah, it's possible. Because I think he's become such this cult figure that people, a lot of people will follow him pretty blindly. And, yeah, that can be dangerous as an investor. But also, to me, it's like Keith Gilroy and Kitty, he is so inseparable from GameStop. Now, I feel like almost any signal or any name he throws out, it would actually just push Gamestop stock higher, and, you know, short term, probably, but it's like no matter what he seems to do, it's game stock Gamestop that gets gets the push there. And I don't know if he would have as much. Yeah, I doubt he would have as much pull over any other name. But then again, who knows how big his army retail traders are, follow him into whatever name he proposes.

Andrew Brill  23:50  
I want to talk a little bit about jobs and the unemployed, the the employment report, it wasn't the unemployment rose, the employment report, I guess that just came out. And we've created fewer jobs than were expected in May. And now they've just adjusted April lower. And this would also dictate that there's fewer people that are going to be out there spending money, because once unemployment goes up, as is expected, the economy will start to slow down again. What, from these numbers?

Phil Rosen  24:23  
So for me I've sort of learned over the last six or eight months has reported to take these numbers with a bit of skepticism and not that I don't want to trust the numbers. But I think the the number of revisions we've seen to the jobs data, seemingly every single month for the last, you know, who knows how long and also the size of some of these revisions has been so dramatic that I tend to wait until Well, the revision comes out before I sort of make a judgment call. And, you know, so this week, we've gotten a few numbers. And what I wrote about this morning and opening bell daily was this, you know, some people pointed to the, the ratio of Java openings per person has hits pre pandemic levels. And to some, I saw plenty of tweets and reports about this, how that is a sign of like the soft landing is here or has, you know, is inevitable at this point. But then, there was also this Bloomberg report from their economics team. That said, some of these government numbers could be overstating the number of non farm payrolls by hundreds of 1000s. And I think, by the end of this year, that it could be overstating by more than a million jobs. That's what Bloomberg economics said yesterday. And, and my first reaction when I read that, you know, I don't know the total ins and outs of Bloomberg analysis. But I would be, I would be inclined to take their word here, rather than the government data, which has been so revised so heavily for so long now. And I think there's a lot of reason to be skeptical about those initial prints. So that's sort of where I'm at. And, you know, I'm as optimistic as anyone. And I always hope for the best, but also, it's very hard for me to Yeah, keep keep believing these numbers, because they're always revised. And so I'll be looking in about a month or two, whatever this month's data was changed.

Andrew Brill  26:58  
So in speaking to Professor Hanke, he told me that there's a lag between when the Fed makes a policy decision, or something happens, and when it actually takes effect when you see an effect, not when it takes effect. But when you actually see results from the decision and your financial reporting. Have you seen that lag in in when I guess the last time the Fed made a an increase is probably nine, nine or so months ago. And now we're seeing the fruits of their labor. It's almost there. It's almost 2%. We're still about a percentage away. But we're getting there. Do you see that lag that Professor Hanke was telling me about?

Phil Rosen  27:40  
I think so. I mean, you something that I'm sort of keeping track of is how consumers are doing and feeling. And I think in a lot of ways, you see that hand in the consumer from this tighter model, tighter monetary policy. Like I think delinquencies are rising and credit card usage is pretty high right now. And that's an interesting indicator to me. Yeah, you know, you see strength still in other parts of the economy. But as far as spending habits of the consumer, that's something that I've I've been writing about quite a bit, and I think is interesting here as far as okay. Is monetary policy having an effect right now? And I think it is yes. But maybe not in the way the Federal Reserve intended? Because it's, yeah, it's kind of it's kind of breaking the wrong parts of the economy. I know, they want to cool things down. But a lot of the initial cooling or you could say pressure has, I think, hit everyday people. So that's something I'm tracking pretty closely. 

Andrew Brill  28:54  
Well, what are consumers telling you? Look, I'm with you. I've heard you know, we speak to viewers all the time, and there's some that are doing okay, but there's a lot that are hurting? What are what are people and your readers telling you about their struggles with with prices that are, you know, at their highest levels that we've ever seen?

Phil Rosen  29:16  
Yeah, it's a good question. I would say most of these the reader feedback or comments I see are even conversations I have with you know, friends and family or colleagues. It's actually has a lot to do with the grocery stores. So everything you're buying on a weekly basis is is more expensive and feels more expensive. So yeah, most of it comes down to like food cost, I would say is putting pressure on a lot of people as far as their you know, their monthly budgets. And you know, that's not even to get into rent costs are very high right now for apartments and I don't I think That's, that's so known at this point that it's actually not talked about, because so many people just know everyone is dealing with high rent. So it's not even a point of discussion anymore. But yeah, most of the conversations I have, and most of the commentary I see from readers is about the grocery store.

Andrew Brill  30:18  
So I want to get into and you know, talking about the grocery store, I want to get into AI a little bit. And you know, I was in a grocery store where there was a, something that looked like a robot coming at me and said, pardon me, I'm taking inventory. Like, wait a minute, what happened to the guy with the clipboard that used to write down? Okay, there's this many sticks of butter on the shelf. But AI, I read somewhere that it's starting to wear off the all the hype about AI. In your reporting, in your research, are you seeing that? Because it seems to be everywhere and each earnings period? All we want to know about is how is Nvidia doing? And what are they doing for the future? Even though Intel is trying to catch their heels? It's just AI, do you see it wearing off at all?

Phil Rosen  31:04  
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, s&p 500 companies, their mentions of AI and earnings calls, it seems like every quarter is higher than ever, like, every quarter, we hit a new record of mentions of AI and you see a whole there's been a huge wave of websites adding AI to their like URL, or companies adding AI to their name. And I don't know if I've really observed that fading yet. I mean, you know, these tech stocks have just really been extraordinary with this AI wave. And I would say the risk is because they perform so well, these big tech names tied to AI, they're hiding a lot of maybe weakness in the market, or, you know, the gains in the market are not so wide. Like they're pretty concentrated. And maybe the risk is not so much that AI is currently fading. But what happens when it does and then investors start realizing like the market hasn't actually gained as much if you take out those handful of names. So that's something I have been sort of reading about it and thinking about a bit. As far as the technology i I only see this getting bigger, actually, like, I'm not sure if you know, the stock market aside for a moment. I don't know if we even scratched the surface of what we're about to discover or invent. As a society with AI. I think open AI is still very early actually like in what they're trying to build. And yeah, who knows what the implications of that will be like, as far as the, you know, I think the the immediate thing that people think about is jobs, like how many jobs will this take or replace? But then how many jobs could it create? But then also like to that? How high level will those jobs be that there'll be some they'll require such a niche expertise, and sort of computer savvy? You know, who are you boxing out of those jobs? So there's a lot of different ways to think about this. And yeah, I think, you know, all these banks have estimates of how much GDP AI will be adding, and they're enormous numbers over the coming decade, but who knows. It's the biggest topic that we've been writing about. So

Andrew Brill  33:46  
So in just a fun question, and look, I know that you report on this stuff is does Intel catch Nvidia or does an NVIDIA win the race by, you know, a ton? Or is there a company out there that we've never heard of that says, you know, what, we've got this.

Phil Rosen  34:04  
I don't think anyone is catching NVIDIA. I think it's been because also the thing about Nvidia, it's, it's not a new company. And they're, I think, right now, they're sort of Right Place Right Time, but they've been doing the right things for 30 years now. So it's not like they came out of nowhere, they've really been a solid and steady tech company for decades. So that tells me there's I'm not sure how, how at risk they are of losing this momentum, at least anytime soon, because really, they've been such a stable and known company for so long. It's not like they just came out of the blue and all of a sudden were the biggest and best. They've really been, you know, it's like decades of work has gone into this. So that gives me quite a bit of fun. In the company.

Andrew Brill  35:01  
So last question, if you know, how do we power all this AI, I know that people are telling us, oh, we have this, we have this, we have it. But we need to, we need to harness the power to make all this work. Have you reported on anything like that?

Phil Rosen  35:16  
I haven't reported too much on the actual energy of this. But I do know, pretty much every single tech company and all their earnings for the first quarter, they've allocated so much money to these data centers, which are going to be a huge component of powering all this. And, yeah, it's really extraordinary, like billions and billions of dollars to build the infrastructure to fuel this technology. And it's probably infrastructure that's going to power technology we can't even conceive of yet. So that's very interesting. But we're already laying the groundwork, and investing in all these massive data centers and warehouses to store all this computing power. Energy wise, I, I couldn't tell you, I mean, there's a yeah, there's, there are so many things that I think go beyond the financials of this, that are just a bit outside my lane. But these are all questions that I think people way smarter than me have no clue as well. Like, how are we going to power this technological revolution? I'm not sure if there's really an answer to that.

Andrew Brill  36:27  
Well, if you want to make money, and you want to make money in the market, find the companies that are trying to do that and supply that power. Invest in those companies, because those are the people are going to make it look AI is going to work. It's matter. Is it going to have the power to work. Phil, thanks so much for joining me. I really appreciate it. It's called opening bell daily, and you can google opening bell daily and find it Phil, what's your Twitter handle? Where can we find you and listen to your insights?

Phil Rosen  36:55  
My Twitter handle is just Phil Rosen, Rosen but there's two ends on my Twitter handle. So Phil Rosen with two n's. And, yeah, I'm sharing articles all the time. I'm sharing charts and market insights. And sometimes I share stuff about my writing process. And yeah, that's where people can find me. And the newsletter goes out five days a week, and I spend all day researching and reading and interviewing people to make it the best financial newsletter on the market. So thanks so much for joining. I appreciate it. Thank you as you really, really appreciate it.

Andrew Brill  37:32  
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