Raoul Pal joins Anthony Scaramucci on “Speak Up” for an insight-packed, can’t miss conversation. The legendary investor, CEO & Co-Founder of Real Vision and Global Macro Investor, shares why recession fears and market bearishness are overblown, why volatility in crypto should be taken advantage of, and how the business cycle is just turning up now, with central banks reducing rates and increasing liquidity.
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Raoul Pal 0:00 So you should be thinking of these sell offs as a gift. These, I call them macro spasms. They don't usually last very long. Rates are going to come down, liquidity is going to come in. Anthony Scaramucci 0:17 So welcome to speak up. I'm Anthony Scaramucci. Thanks for joining us. Our guest is Raoul pal, who is probably our best guess. I don't know. I mean, if I look at our ratings, Raul, it's off the hook, Raoul Pal 0:31 best looking guest. Anthony Scaramucci 0:33 You're incredibly good looking. You're the Indian British James Bond. You live on a tropical island. You got crypto right, 10 years earlier than the rest of us, which is why everybody loves you. Okay, so we're going to talk all things macro, crypto, web three, but let me just see if I have my crash helmet somewhere. Oh, I don't have my crash helmet, so I'm not too worried about the crash. If I had been a lot more worried about the crash, helmet on talking to you. But should I be worried the individual investor while I close this door because my kids are screaming outside, and tell me whether I should be worried or what the hell is going on? Raoul Pal 1:13 Yeah, when you invest in the crypto asset class, you expect volatility. If I go back over all the years I've invested, most years you get two, three or even four, 30% drawdowns. This one in Bitcoin has been 27% it's kind of within the range of normality. And what you need to ask yourself is, the main drivers of crypto are the business cycle. I Where are we the economy? Well, we're starting to pick up slowly. Inflation is coming down, rates are going to come down, liquidity is going to come in. And so therefore that's usually a very good time for crypto. So the tailwind is behind you. And the other thing, are people adopting the technology? Are things being built on it? And that's ongoing too. So when you see a news event like the last few days, you know, driven by macro factors, you tend to think they're likely to be short term. Now, if the business cycle was getting old and the economy was starting to feel a bit more fragile, then yes, you might be worried about it, but this is early in the cycle, and generally you have to expect the volatility and how I've always dealt with it is a Jedi mind trick, which is you look forward to it. When it happens, you can buy more and you get to compound your returns much better than anybody else who just does nothing or tries to trade around it. So you should be thinking of these sell offs as a gift is, oh, wow, if I can find a bit more cash, I can put it into the market, and you tend to do really well over the cycle. By doing that strategy. Anthony Scaramucci 2:51 I have this whole theory. I'm going to test it on you, and I don't want to bore people with the yen carry trade, because it took me 10 years to understand the yen carry trade, which is probably why I'm not on the force 400 list like some of our friends, right? I don't know what the hell it meant, but, but basically, you can borrow at very low interest rates in Japan, and then you can use that money to fuel your other assets. When rates go up in Japan, your borrowing costs go up, you're forced to start selling assets, and then it could create a cascade of assets or lots of margin calls. And that's something that we've seen on top of bad economic data. Is that a general premise? Raoul Pal 3:30 even more so, it's generally not the change of interest rates. Nobody really cares if your rate goes from 10 basis points to 25 basis points or whatever. Right? What it actually was, was the move in the yen, because you have to pay back, you know, you're borrowing yen. When the yen starts moving a lot, then that starts concerning you, the yen went up a lot. So suddenly the amount of yen you've borrowed has gone up in dollar terms. So what happens is, everybody reduces risk. And that was the real thing. Is the Bank of Japan started intervening in the currency market because their currency was too weak, and they started selling dollars and buying their own currency. That's what everybody borrowing yen went, Oh my God. Now suddenly, you know, yes, I'm getting a cheap pickup in borrow, but bloody dollar yen is moving 2% a day, every single day, and I'm losing a lot of money. And what happens is a risk manager comes along at a bank or a hedge fund and goes, you need to close your positions or reduce your risk. And that's really what, what the last four days were all about was the Risk Manager tapping somebody on the shoulder saying, Listen, you're losing money on this side. You need to start reducing risk. And that's why everything gets hit, from crypto to NASDAQ to mining stocks to oil to anything, any risk at all. But these tend to be very short lived. Because, you know, once the market resettles, they get used to the change. People have been washed out of positions. It then kind of settles back to. Normalcy. And these, I call them, macro spasms, they don't usually last very long. Could it last a week? Could it last two or three? That's possible, 2016 so very similar. The the dollar had been very high. The world economy was super slow. World Trade had slowed down because the dollar was so strong. And the Japanese came in and intervened in their currency. All the markets blew up exactly the same mechanism. But what happened after that was the central bank started simulating, particularly the Chinese, because they'd been waiting for this moment to do so the Europeans last time around and the UK last time around. This time, I think it's going to be the Chinese who are going to stimulate. And why they get to stimulate is they couldn't do much cutting of interest rates or stimulating of monetary policy because their currency was too weak and they didn't want to lose control of it. But now the dollar has weakened, they're able to do more. So I think, really, it's probably a net positive. Just give it a few weeks, and it's probably very positive. Anthony Scaramucci 6:03 so I'm going to test this out on you, 15 corrections in the last five years of at least 10% 15 corrections, okay, the 1000 year flood that being defined by the global financial crisis or the stock market crash. 87 the David askin blow up. You and I are old enough to remember that in 94 the 1998 Russian ruble crisis that blew up long term capital management in 98 it feels like the 1000 year flood happens on Wall Street every five or six years. And we chop, we chop our way higher, is that the case? I mean, tell talk to an individual investor. Should, should they? Should you say, Oh, well, this time is different. We're going down 50% we're going into a global depression, or are we just chopping and chopping higher? Raoul Pal 6:54 So firstly, it depends when these events happen. If the economy is rolling over after you've had a strong period, inflation has been rising. The Fed are raising rates. If it happens, then it can risk turning into something bigger when you're the opposite, which is the business cycle is just turning up. Now. The Fed are cutting rates. The probability of this being a bigger event is significantly lower. So from that probability less so the other thing is, something happened in 2008 that has stopped a lot of this. In 2008 the central banks discovered the money printer, and the money printer, and you and I have talked about it on the show before, essentially is debasing the currency by printing more currency. Now it's dressed up in a nice term called liquidity. These days, it used to be quantitative easing, but they find different ways of doing it. When they print more currency, it makes the value of that, the purchasing cap, power of that currency, go down versus scarce assets. So it makes assets go up. So now every time, every four years, in fact, that we've come close to something that could be nastier, they've started printing money. And it's not just the US, it's everybody, all the main central banks, and that has kept a bottom under markets. Even in 2022 was a bit trickier, because we had inflation, so it was hard to print money. But eventually, when it got to it, when the S&P was down about 30% they kind of went enough enough, and they started printing money again. So I don't think there is a lot to fear. In fact, I would be so outrageous to claim the probability of A down 50% market is now miles smaller than it was when you and I grew up, when it was a common occurrence that we would see it we won't see this again. Because of the money printer. Doesn't mean it's a risk free world, obviously, because when they print money, they're debasing your savings by 8% a year to start with. But if you think of that 8% cost of that debasement, that's like the central bank's buying a put option on the whole system, and it's costing you 8% premium a year. Put it that way, it's not the worst thing in the world, but it's never great. Anthony Scaramucci 9:08 The Fed behind the curve? Raoul Pal 9:10 yeah, yeah, they are. So if you look at truflation Anthony Scaramucci 9:14 so somebody, you know, are they 150 basis points behind or they? Raoul Pal 9:21 Yeah, I think you know where they should be. Now, if we look at trueflation, which is an on chain, so on a blockchain recorded about a million or so prices. Anthony Scaramucci 9:33 Let me interrupt you. That's Truflation.com and I recommend that all the time to people, because it's a almost like a blockchain aggregator, decentralized aggregator of pricing data. Go ahead, I'm sorry, I just want to make sure viewers know whwere to find it. Raoul Pal 9:48 It trusted source of truth. Now, it's not exactly the same measure as fed inflation, but it's currently at about one and a half percent. Now, inflation itself is driven by a lot of the. Lagging factors, and housing is the big lagging factor, and wages, both of which are coming down. So we should see inflation much lower. Now, if I look at something called inflation break evens, that's Wall Street's guess of where inflation will be in one year's time. If I look at it now, my Bloomberg screen, it's at point six 3% so they're pricing in a massive undershoot of inflation. So it's telling us that rates should come down significantly. Right now they're probably 100 150 basis points too tight, and I think they should come down to probably around 2% which is also very convenient, because this year, the US Treasury has to roll ten trillion of debts, and it's very expensive to roll it at five and a half percent. It's a lot easier to do at 2% so, you know, I think it's a blessing, and the Fed will want to get rates as far down as possible for the next kind of 12 months when they have to roll all of this debt, it's like nobody wants to refi their mortgage at five and a half percent. They want to refi it at 2% it's exactly the same mechanism for the government, because it costs you a lot. Anthony Scaramucci 11:13 Well, I mean, listen to the reason I'm shaking my head is that we're both in this game a long time. And you know, when somebody tells me this time is different, you and I both know, run for the woods. It's never really different. Um, and I am going to say something to you that I didn't think before, and I want to test it on you. I feel like we have a looming debt crisis, but I also feel like we're going to figure out a way to stay in a roughly permanent, looming debt crisis. I feel like I'm 60 and I'm going to be 70, and hopefully you'll still accept my invitation to come on my show. Of course, the show will have billions of viewers by then, and I'll be saying to you, hey, we're in a looming debt crisis, but the debt crisis actually hasn't happened. Am I right about that? Or Yes, or are we going to be sitting here five years from now in a big crisis? Raoul Pal 12:05 So we're exchanging a debt crisis for a slow debt crisis. The slow debt crisis is the printing of money. Yeah, exactly. It's the 8% a year. So over 10 years, that compounds at 100% Anthony Scaramucci 12:20 Yeah, you're gonna your money is going to be almost worthless. I mean, it's going down, you know? I mean, it's terrible to see, right? I mean, somebody showed me a chart and said, This is the average house priced in Bitcoin, and the dollar was going up, but the price in Bitcoin was going down, because the bitcoin price is going up faster than the inflation. Yeah, if you think of it, Raoul Pal 12:41 if you think of most asset prices versus this debasement, the S&P is doing about 8% a year since 2012 which basically just keeps your head above water, the NASDAQ's done about 17% but bitcoins been doing 150% and when you look at NASDAQ versus Bitcoin, the NASDAQ is down 99.7 No, 99.97% so it does do very good for your purchasing power, but this debasement is a real issue, because most things just don't keep up with the debasement. So that's so you're right. The rolling we're not going to have a massive debt blow up. What we're going to have is this ongoing bleeding of all of our purchasing power? Anthony Scaramucci 13:24 I mean, all of this stuff is inside your bandwidth, inside my bandwidth. We've got a lot of crypto enthusiasts on the call. Some of them have diamond hands, actually. And so let's just talk about the ETFs for a second. So last two days, net inflows to the ETFs, the 11 ETFs, more money went into the ETFs than left the ETFs. So what do you think is happening? You think the world is getting educated to accept this volatility in crypto? Do you think people are just there's just an overwhelming amount of demand now you and I were just so effing early that now there's, you know, we were underestimating the amount of demand that's going to come in from traditional finance people. Or what do you think is happening? Raoul Pal 14:12 the volumes and ETFs are driven by two net inflows, or people known as arbitrages. Who are, you know, arbitraging the futures market. So we don't know what that flow was. So they would sell the futures, which traded a premium, and then buy the ETF. We don't know what that flow was, but let's assume it's net inflows, because binance or record inflows yesterday as well. So what we're seeing is people, I think because of the education that you've been doing, I've been doing, Michael Saylor has been doing. Everybody's been doing. People are starting to understand the game, and even Larry Fink has been explaining the game. The game is the erosion of your purchasing power, not via traditional CPI inflation, but via this more pernicious debasement idea. And I think people are understanding and have been educated. That this is a volatile asset class. And you know, as I started, the beginning of the show is, if we do get sell offs, people are starting to realize that's what I buy. You know, that same strategy worked incredibly well in the NASDAQ over the years as well. You know, you got a big secular trend, any wobbles, generally, a buying opportunity. Anthony Scaramucci 15:18 Solana, what do you think? Raoul Pal 15:22 Solana is cheap, fast, and there's a lot of innovation coming, and we're seeing lots of nice, easy applications for people to use. So you know what drives a blockchain use? Well, nice applications, easy use and cheapness. So it's really, really blowing out all the metrics versus other chains right now, hence why its price outperforms both Bitcoin and Ethereum. So it's been definitely the big breakout of this cycle, and I think it continues because it's getting a lot of traction. It's just a very easy to use chain that's very fast, and a lot of the applications are just very user friendly. Anthony Scaramucci 15:59 This show is sponsored by better help in these crazy times we live in. The last thing on your mind is you and taking care of yourself. We all deal with it, work, kids, obligations, bills. How about 11 days in the White House? You name it. Everything takes priority, except you. Have you ever been an athlete? 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You and I are not in jail, but he was a brilliant guy, okay, flawed human being, and obviously sad to see what happened to him. But I had dinner with him in September of 2022 and he told me that Solana is the fastest, and Solana is going to be the winner. And I said, Well, you've made investments in others. You made investments in mist and labs, and you made invent. I think you're on the board of of one of these. Yeah. So no, they're good, and they will have a role, but Solana is great. I said, Well, this network stops a lot. He says, Yeah, it stops a lot because a lot of users and the people, the programmers know they want to use Solana because it's moving fast and it's very secure, and so he'll fix meaning Anatoly, the creator of Solana, will fix the work stoppages. Do you believe that? Raoul Pal 18:16 Well, they've stopped so, yes, okay, Anthony Scaramucci 18:19 but do you believe that he who is fastest wins, and therefore Solana flip Ethereum? Let me say it that way, because Solana flip Ethereum. Raoul Pal 18:30 You know, I don't know. I don't think so. I think Solana grows massively and closes the gap massively with Ethereum. Different chains are used for different things. Ethereum is secure. Is probably the chosen one for the finance industry to build on top of, whether it's layer twos or whatever, because it's very secure, very well battle tested and very respective and still innovative. Solana seems like it's more for retail application and fast moving applications even maybe a crypto exchanges can build on the new fire dancer part of it, because it's super fast. So I think you know, to extract a way for people watching this. I don't really understand this. It's really simple, Bitcoin, Ethereum, Solana, they're all just decentralized businesses selling block space on their blockchain, and different block spaces have different attributes, and they're used for different cases. So Bitcoin is the single most secure. So right now, its main use case is just Bitcoin itself, and it's perfect in that way. Ethereum defy has really been the big thing, and obviously nfts were very big, but that's also gone to Solana, so valuable transactions. If banks are going to transfer hundreds of gazillions of dollars between each other, Ethereum is likely the chain of choice, Solana for lots of rapid transactions. It's, it's the right choice. We will see other things, whether it's, you know. Which is the mist and labs one or avalanche, or others for gaming or for other applications, like converting the old web two, social media into web three, or music, they will all find different blockchains that better suit their purpose. Anthony Scaramucci 20:14 Okay, all right, so this is the time where I get very happy. And I don't know if viewers and listeners get happy. But I think I talked to you once I was, like in Hawaii, and you were getting right, you were giving price targets, and I must have drank like 40 my ties after your price targets. You know what I mean? So, I mean, let's go here. So where is solana Raoul Pal 20:35 because I always get hung out to dry every time I do this. Anthony Scaramucci 20:40 You know, I'm, I'm sitting here in my vacation home, and I'm expecting price targets from you, so I can it'll give me an excuse to do something dangerous and dastrally so, so go ahead, Raoul Pal 20:52 I just get hounded online for saying Anthony Scaramucci 20:56 Solana is at the end of this cycle, meaning, you know, we get closer to another Bitcoin having Solana's where? Raoul Pal 21:03 it's probably north of 1000 I think the range for me is, worst case is 800 mid cases like 1200 upper case in a blow off top would be two and a half 1000. So don't cut off that two and a half 1000 bit at the end and says two and a half 1000, Anthony Scaramucci 21:23 I actually think it's 1000 so I'm not going to push you to two and a half 1000, but you know, if it is 1000 right? It's really, you tell me it's fully diluted. Market cap right now is 83 billion. You're you're talking about four to $600 billion of market gap, yeah, or something that is this unbelievable decentralized software that could facilitate large scale, trillions of transactions at very low cost for a global society. So I don't know you tell me what the banks are worth. You know, do you think I mean, if this thing is going to replace a lot of banking transactions, shouldn't it will be worth at least a trillion dollars. Raoul Pal 22:07 I think all of these big blockchains will be worth multiple trillions of dollars, because these are not single applications, they're entire networks of which you can build entire other businesses upon. These are immensely valuable things, but the applications haven't yet be built in it. So, yeah, I think you're dead, right? You know, this cycle is not where these things are going. I think this space goes from 2 trillion today to 100 trillion by 2032, 2034, okay, Anthony Scaramucci 22:36 so the message from Raul Paul and also Anthony Scaramucci, but you're the big kahuna. I'm just a tiny biker. Is relax. Don't get yourself too crazy with the volatility. All right. Let's go to viewer. Raoul Pal 22:48 I just want to raise one point about this. Anthony Scaramucci 22:50 Yeah, please. Raoul Pal 22:51 Let me go back to what I just said, $2 trillion to $100 trillion in, let's say, 10 years, that will be the largest, fastest accumulation of wealth in all of the human history. Yeah, that would be double the 100 Year accumulation of wealth of the S, p5, 100. Yeah. So for those people... Anthony Scaramucci 23:11 Not to interrupt, but it would make sense, because you're, you're, you're taking third parties out of transactions, because you just have to think about, from a human innovation point of view, every time we've interacted with each other, because we don't trust each other, we have a verifiable third party to help us. If you remove that, think of the cost savings to human society, human economy. So of course, it would create that a level of wealth in a system that does that. Raoul Pal 23:38 So therefore, as an investor, that's the thing to keep in mind. How do I stay in this trade for as long as possible? And compound, what is the largest you know, if I go back to anybody and say, Would you have bought the NASDAQ in 1990 everyone was, hell yes. Well, here you've got it 1990 not 9919 90, you go, hell yes. Well, that's where we are now, somewhere in the mid 90s of the NASDAQ Anthony Scaramucci 24:06 Even though the NASDAQ in 2000 corrected by 50% if you bought it in 1990 you're sitting here in 2024 you're a very happy camper. Raoul Pal 24:16 very happy camper. So, you know, just think about the amount of wealth that generated from the technology boom. This is going to dwarf that. Anthony Scaramucci 24:24 Is that a barber's chair behind you. And just have to ask the question? Raoul Pal 24:28 Its a 1950s barbers chair that was refurbished Anthony Scaramucci 24:31 and you have it because you don't shave, or somebody cuts your hair in that chair Raoul Pal 24:35 I just have a staff who could just come and shave me every morning. No, it's I just like it. It's just kind of iconic. And I've listened to podcasts there, and it has been used for tequila shots at parties as well. Anthony Scaramucci 24:46 all right, well, I got to get to one of these parties. This is an absolute must for me. All right, let's go to viewer and listener questions are all Bitcoin and Ethereum, ETFs pretty much the same. And. Think they're talking about Alex from Georgia is talking about the configuration and the pricing and the fees. Raoul Pal 25:07 Generally speaking, yes, yes, okay. Generally speaking, some are a bit cheaper. Some have little perks benefit. But for the average person, they're all about the same Anthony Scaramucci 25:16 And they're and they're highly regulated instruments, and so I think generally, I would say they all have the rough safety seals on them, which I think is why the the industry has done so well this year. The that that regulatory reformation, if you will, has led to people saying it's acceptable for me now to buy these products. Okay, let's go to the next question. Trump proposed a national Bitcoin stockpile, sort of like a reserve fund for Bitcoin. What is your take on this, and how would it impact the crypto market? This is Lucille from Kentucky, Raoul Pal 25:51 so I actually think it's a bit of a red herring, because the US dollar is the world's reserve currency. The US doesn't need to hold other assets in reserve. Yes, it's got gold but that was a legacy from leaving the gold standard. Other countries have to have reserves to support their own currencies, so they don't need it. Now, would they do it? I think it sounds flashy for what reason? I don't really know, but let's assume that they do, let's say I'm wrong and they do build something. It's kind of a weird world, because, yes, obviously it's good for the crypto market, because there's yet another buyer. But it's also weird because Bitcoin was set up to try and replace the government's control over money, and now you're inserting the government as one of the largest buyers of private money. I don't really like that, actually, but, you know, but it's probably net positive for the crypto price. Now, maybe it put pushes private use of money away from Bitcoin, if that were the case, because if the government can manipulate it, they could dump it onto the market, they can buy more, and before you know it, they're using it like they are interest rates and controlling regular money. And we don't want that. What do you actually, what do you think Mooch? Anthony Scaramucci 27:08 well, I like it because I you know, if you're worried about a debt crisis, this sort of slow motion debt crisis, if, if the US government bought 4 million of the 21 million Bitcoins, you know, they they're going to own what ultimately is going to be one of the big technological stores of value going forward. And so if the dollar is appreciating and the Bitcoin on the government's balance sheet is going up, I think it weirdly helps the government. You know Raoul Pal 27:37 Because government's being governments, right? They end up, then abusing it. And so before you know it, they're then dumping Bitcoin at certain times, buying at other times. And it's just like they do with money, Anthony Scaramucci 27:48 yeah, or the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, right? They do that. Well, yeah. So I get it. I'm not saying that it's perfect, but I don't dislike it. Let's put it that way. And you know, governments have a tendency to do the absolute wrong thing at every time until the last time. Right? It's like what Churchill said, right? We do always do the wrong thing. We always do the right thing after we've exhausted every other possibility. All right, let's go to the next question. What are some good books to read for those who don't really understand crypto so let's, let's go to Raoul on that, and then I'll offer some ideas. Raoul Pal 28:23 I don't really know. I think Lynn aldens new book, I can't remember what it's called, the price, not the price of money. I can't remember what it's called. That's probably worth reading the Bitcoin standard as a basic intro. Was very good. Anything by Andreas Antonopoulos, always good. The internet of money, a good start. Anthony Scaramucci 28:48 So Lynn's book, I just looked it up. It's called Broken money, broken money, and so yeah, and I've recommended that to people, and I've read that book. It's quite good. Safford. Saffordian almost wrote the Bitcoin standard. I think it's a brilliant book. I'm actually writing a book right now for John Wiley, the publisher. They have this like little book series. Maybe you've seen them, little book of value investing, little book that beats the market. I'm writing the little book of Bitcoin. What Wall Street already knows that you need to know. And Michael Saylor has agreed to write the forward, which I'm very excited about. And so anyway... Raoul Pal 29:26 I think the point being is, a lot of the books we've mentioned have been relatively old, and I think there is a need for, as we bring in new people into the space, simple ways to educate people. So I think it's very good that you're writing that book, because I think it's very helpful. Anthony Scaramucci 29:41 Yeah, so I were, you know, I'm excited about I talked to Michael about it at the Bitcoin conference last week, and we've already got the manuscript over to the publisher. Okay, let's go to the next one. Thank you. Tim from Florida, are the days of nfts over, or is there still value in them? Chuck from Texas. Is so I got to get the crash helmet for this one. Chuck, okay, let me I'm going to leave the room and come back with a helmet. Go ahead Raoul Pal 30:06 Nfts are probably the most powerful technology in the whole crypto space, in a world where everything digital goes to zero in value, because you can make more of it, nothing can maintain value. What an NFT does is create digital scarcity, and thus digital value. It also is a mechanism of storing and transferring ownership of something, the digital right a contract. So the NFT craze of, you know, monkey JPEGs and stuff. That was just the first iteration of using the technology. Some of those things, digital art, I think, is going to be extremely valuable over time, but this technology is going to be used for all sorts of things, whether it's global ticketing or digital ID or we've seen California start to adopt it for your car deeds. I think we'll use them for property deeds. I think we'll use them for derivative contracts. So nfts as a technology haven't even started. They will be so pervasive that you won't even know that every ticket you go to an event is an NFT. Every contract that you have will be an NFT. Most securities that you might trade, maybe nfts. But some of the art, and I've been collecting people like x copy and beeple. These people are cultural artists that are very relevant to this time, and I think they'll be very valuable over time, so it's going to be a bifurcation as ever, but the best assets win. Anthony Scaramucci 31:45 next question, do you think the new Democratic ticket? Okay, and we're recording now where it's now a a Harris waltz. This is Tim waltz. The governor of Minnesota is on the ticket, so it's a Harris walls ticket. Is better for crypto or the same as with Biden at the top. This is Jeff from Boston. Raoul Pal 32:03 I don't think we've been given any guidance yet. So as of today, we don't really know. It was very interesting, because the Democrats reached out to a bunch of people in the crypto space, and they reached back and said, Listen, we're not going to talk unless you agree to certain things to undo some of the damage that you've done. Yes, we've not heard anybody come back yet with a concrete decision that they will reverse course on this. So I don't know whether it's any different than Biden or not we. We're just going to have to say it's a bit earlier. What do you think, mate? Anthony Scaramucci 32:37 So, I mean, I think it's a great question. I've been involved with this, obviously, Mike Novogratz, Mark Cuban and I have met with Mark, Mark and Ro Khanna. It's really Cuban and Ro Khanna set up a round table for the industry. I was there at the first meeting. I'll be present at the second meeting. I think they are trying to figure out a way to get a reset going. I think the good news is, though, if you go with the Democrats, you know they believe in the rule of law. So Gary Gensler may hate crypto, but he keeps losing court cases, and so it's been favorable to crypto. And so in the Biden administration, the industry actually did well, despite the resistance. Now I understand where the Winklevosses are coming from and others that are supporting Donald Trump. Supporting Donald Trump because they don't like this. I think it's unfair, and they think this regulation by enforcement should end, and so I'm hoping it will Jeff from Boston, but I don't, I don't know the answer to that, but I will say this, if the Harris waltz ticket loses, one thing that will be on the autopsy report is their lack of openness to the crypto industry. You have 50 million people that own it in the US, and they're not going to be happy if they decide to stay in the Biden Elizabeth Warren camp. Raoul Pal 33:54 look 50 million where the average demographic age is 34 years old. Anthony Scaramucci 33:58 Yeah, it's not a great look for them. And by the way, there's a lot of minorities own this as well, so not a great look for them. Jeff, hopefully they'll take the advice of this round table that's been convening and see if they'll pivot and move in the direction that's more favorable for the industry. Let's go to the next question. You had to pick one Olympic sport where you stand a chance at meddling. What is your favorite pick? I said, Well, I would say this about myself after my male breast reduction surgery, I'm going for women's volleyball, because you're allowed to pick any pronoun you want now and so, but I do need a little bit because I think I'm a little bit too chesty to really play the sport super well. But that would be me. Okay. Now, what about you? Raoul Pal 34:40 I'm I'm average at best at any sport and not good at anything. So I, you know, I don't think I'm particularly... Anthony Scaramucci 34:51 remain good looking and charming. Okay, you'll get a gold medal for that. How's that? Raoul Pal 34:55 I'll go for that. Anthony Scaramucci 34:56 All right. Well, I want to, I want to thank you again for joining. On. Speak up. You're always the show's favorite guest. Okay, of course, I say that to all the guests, Ralph, so don't get too yeah, don't let your head swell too much. But you do know I adore you Raoul Pal 35:10 I like chatting to you, so I'm always happy to do this Anthony Scaramucci 35:13 I'm very grateful to you, and there's always a little pang of jealousy that I have when I look at your barber's chair, and the fact that you're living on a tropical island and I'm here struggling in the high tech state of New York, I just want you to know. I want you to enjoy that, Raoul Pal 35:28 okay, and hopefully we'll meet again somewhere in a nice environment Anthony Scaramucci 35:32 In a tropical environment Raoul Pal 35:34 Share a hotel somewhere. Anthony Scaramucci 35:36 All right? Well, thank you for joining. Speak up. It's been an awesome conversation, and hopefully I'm going to run into you soon. Raoul Pal 35:40 Yeah, great to see everybody. Take care. Anthony Scaramucci 35:43 If you like this video, you'll like this video as well. Check it out
