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Andrew Brill speaks with financial guru Brandy Maben of WindRock Wealth Management, to reveal the secrets to maximizing your retirement savings and outsmarting the market. Whether you’re just starting or looking to optimize your current retirement plan, this episode is packed with insider tips on solo 401(k)s, Roth IRAs, and investment strategies that could triple your wealth. Discover how to make your money work for you, understand the importance of Roth conversions, and learn about investment opportunities beyond the stock market. Don’t let complexity hold you back from financial freedom—start building a wealthier, more secure future today!


Andrew Brill 0:00
Hello, and welcome to Wealthion. And I’m your host, Andrew Brill. And when it comes to retirement, everybody dreams for the day, they can kick back, relax, and enjoy the freedom of not working. But many of us don’t plan for that. We’ll talk about how to do some of that coming up next.

Our mission here at Wealthion is to help all of us keep and grow our money. But Wealthion is not just a channel, it’s a conversation with our community. So please keep the feedback coming. If there’s something you’d like us to talk about, or someone you’d like to hear from, let us know. And if you could like and subscribe to the channel, we’d really appreciate it. I’d like to now welcome in Brandy Maben of WindRock wealth management. She’s a director there. And they’re also one of our registered investment advisors. So if you come to, fill out our form, there’s a good chance Brandy might be one of the ones getting back to you. Now Brandy, we’re going to talk a little bit about retirement and retirement planning. And there’s so much that goes into retirement planning, there’s so many different things. And I have a feeling that’s one of the reasons why people don’t end up planning as well as they should, because it’s also confused, almost like walking into Starbucks and trying to order a regular cup of coffee. There’s so many different things on the menu. But I’m hoping that you can break it all down for us. Welcome to Wealthion, we’re so happy to have you.

Brandy Maben 1:24
Thank you, I’m really excited to be here.

Andrew Brill 1:27
So break it down for us. I know that there’s, you know, so many different things. Where does one start when you’re thinking about retirement planning?

Brandy Maben 1:35
There are so many options when it comes to retirement planning. And it first starts with what your options are with your employer, if you’re a solo entrepreneur, or if you are just starting off of college, there’s all sorts of ways. Various ways that we like to focus on are some of our more complex strategies. If we have entrepreneurs with small businesses, we really prefer solo 401 K plans, or even defined benefit plans, those maximize tax benefits the most. And we always like to integrate Roth IRAs. So there’s a variety of plans we could talk about, those three, I would say are really what we like to focus on it windrock. And it gives us opportunity to be complex with our investments, and not be so cookie cutter, like you’ll find with some employer plans that some people it is the best option for them. But we’d like to get a little bit more sophisticated.

Andrew Brill 2:35
So let’s start out with the 401 Ks. And I know in your new article on windrock, you can go there, anyone can go there and read what you’ve written about retirement planning and 401, k’s and solo 401 Ks, and we’re gonna get to talking all that explained to us the difference between a 401 K and a solo 401k.

Brandy Maben 2:57
Okay, so a regular 401k is usually provided by your employer, where if you have a big corporation, they will offer you either a 401 k or a Roth component 401k, you can give up to $23,000, this year in 2024. To that plan, sometimes your employers match somewhere between 2% to even 8%. It all depends on your employer. But your maximum deferral will be that 23,000 A solo 401 K, like I said before is for solo entrepreneurs, or small businesses. And those actually maximize a deferred amount for you. Because you’re the both the employer and the employee. And when you’re under the age of 50, it’s not just that 23,000 It actually can be maximized to 69,000 or 76.5 1000. Because it it’s the maximizing of an employer and an employee.

Andrew Brill 3:59
So it the importance of putting money away. And I’m sure you deal with this a lot. What do you say to the person who says look, you know what, I can’t afford any you said, you know, for traditional 401k up to the age of 50. You can put away $23,000? That’s and that’s pre tax. Right, right? So what do you say to the person who says $23,000? I can’t take that cash flow out of my pocket, I can’t go up to you know that amount. What do you say to that person?

Brandy Maben 4:29
It’s really all about your cash flow. And the savings goal that you have anywhere from five to 20% is really a good starting base for your savings. And sometimes that’s all in your 401k. Sometimes it’s split up between your Roth your 401 K and even just emergency funds. So it all depends on your planning with your advisor and making sure that that percentage is planned out strategically. So

Andrew Brill 4:54
you talked about an employer match. Yes, it’s always good to I would assume To try and put the most into your IRA so that your employer will match up to their percentage.

Brandy Maben 5:07
Correct. So a lot of people do it up into that match and make sure that it’s maximized to their fullest potential. Some don’t take advantage of that because of their cash flow. But if you’re in a year that you can, we would always highly suggest it depending on all of your other investment planning.

Andrew Brill 5:25
So your solo Ira versus your 401k? What kind of investments? Okay, you put money in there? And you say, okay, you know what, that’s my 401k. Does that money get invested? Does that money sit there and get just a percentage interest? How does that work?

Brandy Maben 5:44
Right, so a 401k, with a main broker dealer, or through a corporate employer, goes through a system, a third party that gives you allocation sets or sectors that you’re allowed to choose from. And it’s really based on your risk tolerance. After you pick those, it’s in stocks, bonds, mutual funds, ETFs, and they’re pretty General, General investments, you’ll never really see technology or energy or really growth focused opportunities and those investments. However, if you’re in a solo, 401 k, or an IRA or Roth with advisors like us, we can put it into investments from real estate, farmland, crypto, also your stocks and bonds. But we can get really complex with private placements within these plans even. And it’s a benefit outside of those corporate systems.

Andrew Brill 6:38
Now, when you’re talking about risk tolerance, I would assume if you’re younger, just starting out, you’re starting your 401k, your risk tolerance, I would assume would be a little bit higher than someone who’s in their 40s or 50s. And trying to protect that money a little bit, make it grow at a decent rate, but not as big a rate as you would if you were younger.

Brandy Maben 6:57
Right. And that’s talking about time horizon. So whenever your time horizon is at retirement, or just end of life, you want to plan on your income stream off of that off of that timeline. So if you’re coming out of college, you’re at your highest risk tolerance and can really shoot for the moon, if you’re in your 40s and 50s. Hopefully, you have been saving for retirement, but we do meet 40 year olds that are just now starting because of their situations in the past. So again, it all depends on when that retirement deadline is.

Andrew Brill 7:30
And what are the tax benefits to a 401 k or a solo 401 K, I would assume that, you know, there has to be some sort of tax benefit to putting this money away that you’re not going to touch for quite a quite a number of years.

Brandy Maben 7:44
Right. And that’s just tax deferral. So it comes out of your income that you’re claiming on your taxes each year. So if you do put the maximum of 23,000 in, you get to take that straight out of your income and subtract it.

Andrew Brill 7:58
So that’s pre tax dollars.

Brandy Maben 8:00
Correct. Yes.

Andrew Brill 8:02
So explain to us then the Roth portion of that, you there’s a Roth 401 K Roth IRA, explain to us what the Roth portion of all that is,

Brandy Maben 8:15
Right. So if you go to your HR rep, or your employer planning company, they’ll let you know, if you have a Roth component to your 401k. Not all of them provide that. But basically, you’re putting that money in pre tax, so you, you are after tax, so you pay the tax on it, and then you put it in this fun to grow tax free. There’s a ton of benefits to that if anyone knows about the simplicity behind compounded interest, you could be in your 20s, save only $8,000 A year and with compound interest, be a millionaire by 65 and not pay any tax on that money when you withdraw it. If you’re in a deferred account, like a regular 401k from 65, you will have to pay taxes on that amount that was growing. So a Roth component has a lot of benefits there.

Andrew Brill 9:05
So the Roth component, you don’t have to pay tax on any of the gains because you’ve put the money in pre tax, because

Brandy Maben 9:11
You put it in after tax.

Andrew Brill 9:13
Um, so right, after tax.

Brandy Maben 9:14
Yeah, so we already paid the taxes upfront, meaning it’s growing tax free inside the account.

Andrew Brill 9:21
But what happens, what happens to the portion that you’ve gained? Let’s say you’ve put $10,000 in it’s not grown to $100,000? Is there a tax component to that? $90,000?

Brandy Maben 9:31
There’s not.

Andrew Brill 9:33
So Roth IRAs, oh, I’m going to open up a Roth IRA tomorrow, or maybe after this interview, but

Brandy Maben 9:39

Andrew Brill 9:40
How does one open up a Roth IRA? Now, if you’re not in a if your employer doesn’t have that Roth IRA component, a Roth 401 k component? How would someone go about opening up a Roth IRA or could they open up a Roth IRA?

Brandy Maben 9:55
They can there’s are income limits to funding a direct Roth IRA. However, there are ways around it, which we call a backdoor Roth. And there are ways to fund it no matter what your income level is. So we recommend everyone open a Roth IRA. For you. For instance, if you have an IRA, and you’re above the limits, which is 161,000, for individuals, 240,000 for married couples, if you’re above those limits, open an IRA and a Roth fun, the contribution for Tier IRA, on your taxes, make sure that that is a non deferral contribution, and then you shift it right over to your Roth. So that’s not going to be the same amount as a 401k. Roth up to that 23,000. But it is seven to $8,000, this year, depending on your age, and that accumulates over time. So we recommend anyone open that up.

Andrew Brill 10:51
So if an individual has a job, and you know, I’m thinking about my kids, actually, they they’ve both of them who are out in the working world have opened up Roth IRAs, you can do that, individually, you don’t need an employer that has a some sort of pension or 401 K program to be able to do that. And you you can open that up by yourself, couldn’t you?

Brandy Maben 11:13
Correct. So any custodian has those accounts available to open, and any financial advisor can also help you.

Andrew Brill 11:21
And those limits, you should try and maximize those each year. It’s only about $7,000, I think that you can put into your Roth IRA, but it’s post tax dollars, and it just grows without any tax consequence.

Brandy Maben 11:35
Exactly. Right. Yeah.

Andrew Brill 11:39
So I would just go to my regular broker or wherever I have my stock account, say, look, I want to open up a Roth IRA. And they can do that for you.

Brandy Maben 11:48
Yeah, you’d come to windrock, obviously, and do it. Um, but you just ask them to open an IRA and a Roth. And they will, they should advise you on what limits you have in which direction to go, whether it’s a direct fun to the Roth or a backdoor Roth. Correct.

Andrew Brill 12:04
And those Roth IRAs and, you know, we talked about 401 ks and how you can manage risk, or you can be, you know, do risky things with it because you’re younger, and you can manage that risk. Can you do the same with a Roth? Is there places you invest with your Roth IRA money? Yes,

Brandy Maben 12:24
Yes, any place you want within an IRA, like windrock. So if you are with more of a set broker that really only gives you sectors to be in like the stocks and bonds and mutual funds, you’re going to be pretty locked in. But if you find an advisor that can do private placements, the sky’s the limit, we we like to get into crypto at windrock. And we got in when the new fidelity fund just got approved and are seeing incredible gains on that already. We’re going to hold on to it for a while. But as soon as we sell and see that growth, there’s going to be absolutely no no tax.

Andrew Brill 13:04
Explain to me other things. When Roc invests in or looks at, as you mentioned, crypto, obviously, there’s some stocks, maybe some sectors, are there other things that wind rock looks at and says oh, you know what? This might be a good investment. It might be a private equity thing or something like that. Are there other places that Winrock can put someone’s retirement money to put it to work for them?

Brandy Maben 13:28
We can Yeah, so investments like real estate, for instance, one, one sector we like is just an income fund. So we have a partner that owns a lot of commercial real estate and all of their rental income, which has been steady for the last 12 years, has proven to be almost 30% return right now. They can promise investors an 8% Return income stream annually. So if we’re putting in an IRA, let’s say we get someone’s rollover of 250,000, we can put half of that in an 8% income stream, just in that commercial real estate sector and do other investments with the other portion. Now we like that we feel like it’s a high quality bond, if you will, just in the private sector. And then we like to put it in maybe real estate that is build to rent communities. There’s communities all over the country going up that are 25 homes, and they it’s just for rental purposes. They’re not selling those homes. Again, it’s going to be that income stream. We keep it four to six years and then once the sale happens, our investors get that profit of whatever the growth was on that sale. So those are two real estate areas. We like to get into long term investments like farmland we really like farmland that’s going from conventional to organic farmland all over Oregon and California. We have partners that are getting into things like that We also custodian hard bars of gold and silver coins, even depending on the price mark. So those are some of the examples that we like to get into.

Andrew Brill 15:10
So we’re coming into tax season now, obviously, April 15. Is is right upon us. Talk to me about the tax consequence of taking money out of a 401k or a solo 401. K, as opposed to the Roth IRA, we talked a little bit about, you know, the gains in the Roth IRA are not taxed. But I would assume the gains in 401k is because that’s coming out pre tax, there’s probably some tax consequence, once the money comes out.

Brandy Maben 15:39
Correct. So you’ll have to pay basically ordinary income or depending on how it was invested on that income stream coming out. So whether you hit age 73, and you’re taking required minimum distributions, you’ll have to pay tax, then, or you’ll take it whenever you qualify to withdraw the money. We, a lot of times use mega Roth conversions throughout their lifetime, either during employment or after to maximize their Roth contributions and make sure that there’s minimal assets in a 401k. As we all know, you know, there’s no crystal ball, we don’t know what taxes are gonna be when we’re all 70 and 85. Hopefully, we don’t see record highs, like 70%. Again, 40% already seems like a tough pill to swallow for some of us Americans. But we want to make sure we mitigate that. And mega Roth conversions throughout the lifetime can really help.

Andrew Brill 16:39
Explain to me what a mega Roth conversion would be and how that would work.

Brandy Maben 16:44
Yeah, so we like to take these 401k plans, roll it over to an IRA, once they’re either severed service, or however they ended up with their company, and slowly transferred into a Roth. So if it’s 500,000, we could start to transfer 50,000 a year if their income stream can manage that tax hit, let’s say it’s $10,000 a year and shift the 10,000 into a Roth pay the tax on it, but then really get the benefit of the Roth tax free growth as they get older.

Andrew Brill 17:20
So as you shift that money from a 401 k into a Roth, you ended up paying taxes on that, but hopefully at a lower bracket because now you’re not working.

Brandy Maben 17:30
Correct. Right.

Andrew Brill 17:33
So it really pays to have the Roth IRA, and really mitigate some of that tax consequence and rolling that over from, you know, one 401k into the Roth seems like a no brainer. But you that you have to make sure you can put that tax bill, I would assume.

Brandy Maben 17:54
Oh, of course. So we work very closely with CPAs, and tax professionals to make sure there’s extensive planning before we make any of these moves. These could be a one year mega Roth conversion, if someone’s say, has a down year of employment, and they want to make a big shift, or trickling it through many years, we always get tax advisers advice before making those moves.

Andrew Brill 18:18
What about people who at 73 are still working, and they don’t want to take that, that mandatory withdrawal or pay down? How does that work? Are they able to not touch that money?

Brandy Maben 18:31
Like a RMD required? minimum distribution? You mean? Right, right. Right. Right. So there is something called a qualified charitable distribution and say they don’t need the RMD. And it’s just excessive to them. We’ve had clients use this QCD and give it to charities. And once you’re 70 and a half, you’re allowed to give $100,000 a year up to and give it to charities of your choice.

Andrew Brill 18:58
So a qualified charitable donation can also help you mitigate a tax consequence.

Brandy Maben 19:05
Yeah, yes, because then you’re not taking that income stream. So people that have these very large 401k is because they did such a good job saving can really mitigate tax that way. And if you have certain charities that you really appreciate, it can really benefit you and the charity. So my husband actually works in college athletics, and there’s a big push to get donations from fans. And they get a lot of perks with those donations, like traveling with the basketball team, better seats, they move up a ranking and get more privileges like go into private practices, meeting the head coach, so they can donate to qualified University athletic departments even and then benefit from that. So we had a client that huge fan and he wanted to give a massive donation to the to the university and we made it into a Make a Roth conversion where the QD see was $100,000 One year, which you can take that in November. And then you can do another one in January of the next year, there’s $200,000 into that donation, that you get all the benefit points of again, that’s with athletics. Not every charity has such such perks. But for all of our athletic fans out there, that is a that is a move you can make when you’re in your retirement years and want to enjoy the hard earned savings that you have. So

Andrew Brill 20:32
you’re still working, but you have to make that you have to take that minimum amount per year, is that something an employer could match? If you say, you know, what, I donated X amount of dollars, doesn’t matter where you donated it from, it could have come from your IRA, an employer could actually match that money.

Brandy Maben 20:50
Yes, many do match that money, actually, a lot have shied away from it as, as different tax rules have changed within the government. But there are many corporations that match it if you ask HR.

Andrew Brill 21:05
So explain to me that the solo 401 K, and a SEP IRA SEP IRA, how do those differ,

Brandy Maben 21:14
you know, in in various ways, I liked the solo 401k Because it can involve your spouse. And you can make them an employee if you’re a single entrepreneur, and you don’t have to worry about their retirement on your own. So athletics again, I work with a lot of coaches, and a lot of them are W two employees within their university, but they host camps on the side. And those camps can make $100,000 or more. And if they really don’t need that income stream during their coaching career, a solo 401 K maximizes their benefits and their spouse to an extreme amount compared to a SEP a sap has different tax rules and different limitations that it there can be a lot more complexities behind it. It’s not a bad plan. I just prefer solo on solo 401k for small businesses or solo entrepreneurs at this at this point.

Andrew Brill 22:13
Alright, so we’ve talked about 401 K’s, we’ve talked about Roth IRAs, you go to somebody, you go to your employer, and you say, okay, you know, I want to sign up for our pension plan, they say, Fine, we have a defined benefit plan. What exactly is now the defined benefit plan as compared to the as these other things, right.

Brandy Maben 22:31
So if you’re an employee getting into a defined benefit plan, your hope is that you’re with that employer for longer than five years, sometimes longer depending on their vested schedule, and you qualify for a pension plan when you retire. A lot of state systems have this too, where if you give for a certain amount of time you get a certain income stream come the end of retirement. Now, those can get very cumbersome and complex. And there’s a lot of administrative work behind it. If you have a lot of employees, we personally work with a lot of employers who started alone or with just a couple of employees. Now there are a lot of complexities to building that depending on your age, which usually you want to be older than all of your employees by a significant amount to really benefit from the contributions you’re making. It also depends on your retirement age and your goal of what you want that fun to be at the end. So when we work with sole entrepreneurs that are making a significant amount of money a year, they can put away a deferred amount like we talked about that deferral 401k They can put up to last year, I didn’t want to have $380,000, just from one company into this defined benefit plan. That’s a significant amount of savings on a year that that employer was paying too much tax as it was really needed to mitigate it.

Andrew Brill 23:56
Is there a benefit to the company for having a defined benefit plan as opposed to having everybody contribute to a 401 K or something like that?

Brandy Maben 24:09
Just the amount mainly, so it’s going to be a tax deferral for the company. And it’ll be a tax benefit for the employer no matter what the amount is significantly increased with a defined benefit plan. So that’s where the main benefit is. In the end, they will be giving their employees more money than if it were a 401k. So you really have to be vested in your employees and make sure that’s the benefit you want to give. A good plan is usually 80% of the funding will go to the employer 20% will go to the employees by the end. So that’s a significant amount of your earnings going to your employees which is great, but just make sure that you know how much of your earnings you’re giving away.

Andrew Brill 24:54
Today, Brandy we have Generation X that doesn’t seem to like to stay in a job for that long, let’s say they stayed in the job long enough to join their 401 K or their their defined benefit plan and they have some money put away, but now they’re changing jobs, what happens to that money that was sitting in the 401k, that was being managed by the company, or went into the company’s brokerage account?

Brandy Maben 25:22
Right. I deal with this a lot, actually. So I volunteered my time with my past University athletics program, to aid them in whatever they need. And now they’re calling me years later hoping to get some help in these situations, and you’re spot on, there’s, there’s a lot of hopping around with these careers. So it depends on what the plan is, most corporate plans that are 401k is an advisor and the employee, and the client have to call in and get the 401 K funds out of that system and into the new custodian. And usually, that would be a check. So the 401k will write a check to the employee, mail it to them, and then they will deposit it in the new custodians account, which is really just an IRA rollover, they’ll take a 401k put it into an IRA rollover, and it has no tax implication whatsoever, it’s very advantageous to do this as if you leave it in a 401k employer plan, you’re stuck in that system where they’re looking for minimal growth and safe growth, you’re never gonna shoot for the moon in those systems. So getting it out, rolling it over is really beneficial for growth.

Andrew Brill 26:37
So it’s similar to an individual opening up a Roth IRA, I would assume you just go to your, you go to wind rock, and you say, hey, look, I want to I, I’m getting better at this, you’re gonna wind rock and you say, you know, I want to open up my own 401k, because I’m taking my money out of my company’s 401k. It’s as simple as that, you just go to you guys and say, This is what I want to do. Exactly.

Brandy Maben 27:01
And you can even do that with some companies in the middle of working with them. So if you talk to your advisor, you’ve been with your employer for five years, let’s say, you like the growth, it’s about 4%. But you’re really ready to make some moves with that money, you can still contribute to that employer 401k Have your advisor call in with you get the balance that is currently in there and roll it over to that IRA with your advisor at windrock. So that’s, that’s an easy way to start to diversify your investments as well.

Andrew Brill 27:35
How often do you deal with the person who’s watching their 401 K like a hawk, and then calls you up and say, Brandy? Oh, my God, you know, I the stock market is doing really well. But I know the crash is coming. What how do I protect myself?

Brandy Maben 27:50
How often do I deal with that? It’s so personality based, right. So some personalities love to feel like they have control over all of these things. And some people never want to look at it because it makes them lose sleep at night. I deal with both. And there’s always a psychology to Finance. Good thing. One of my degrees in college was psychology. So I tried to calm them down, explain our macroeconomic beliefs. Our team does a ton of research when it comes to this. So we are always on top of when we think things will happen, why we’re investing the way we are and try to mitigate those emotions as much as we can. But it’s bound to come about with different personalities you work with.

Andrew Brill 28:36
And I will mention that you guys do do a ton of research between you, Chris and Brett, if you go to win rock You can see all their research and read it for free. You can get on there and and really take a look and know what you guys do. So I really appreciate that. So minimums. Again, I just want to go over minimums. You said the defined benefit plan, there’s much, much larger minimums. Is that what the company contributes? Can you also as an individual contribute to the defined benefit plan?

Brandy Maben 29:13
It depends on how it’s set up those plans. If you’ve seen one plan, you have only seen that one plan there could be 50 Different ones within a 10 mile radius depending on the company. So TPAs usually have a team of analysts ready to make the plan, a custom fit to the employer and what they want in the end. Now, some of these, the employer gives all the money and it’s in a pooled account and no employee is ever giving money to it. It’s just accumulating under that employer. And when the time comes, you get your portion of that. There are different defined contribution plans that you can put into it that are linked to defined benefit plans, but again, it gets very cumbersome very complex, and those have to be dealt with individually.

Andrew Brill 30:04
Is it ever too late to start a 401k? You know, I know there’s a lot of people say, oh, you know what, I blew it. I should have started this when I was 25. And now I’m, I’m 50. Is it ever too late? How do you advise the person who thinks, oh my god, I’m never going to be able to retire because it’s too late.

Brandy Maben 30:25
Right, and I hope 50 isn’t old for people, because I still think it’s young. And that’s gonna be my, my viewpoint forever. But it’s never too late to start these plans. It’s all depending on what you want in your investment strategy. So if your time of life is in a time where you’re making more money than ever, and you want to mitigate that by deferring tax 50 could be the perfect age to start a 401k. If you’re at a phase of not making a lot of income, a Roth could be a perfect time, right, then it really depends on your lifestyle, your employment and where you’re at.

Andrew Brill 31:01
So there’s amazing tax benefits now that we’re getting into, or almost toward the end of tax season, but we’re, it’s right around the corner, there’s amazing tax benefits, for putting money away for saving money for, you know, all these different vehicles for retirement,

Brandy Maben 31:18
Tons of tax benefits. And again, it depends on which ones you’re taking advantage of, and what you want to see at the end of the day on your filing. And CPAs always have to help with that. But that’s, that’s one of the strategies windrock loves to work with. And it’s always part of our holistic planning, we really deal with CPAs constantly to make sure that our clients are getting exactly what they need with tax efficiency.

Andrew Brill 31:44
Well, I know that I have learned a ton, I know that I’m going to open up a Roth right after I leave here and Randy actually and say, Hey, I, you know, I need help here and, and start putting my money into a Roth IRA. And, you know, thank you so much this has been again, if if you want to read about this, go to windrock And you can read Randy’s paper on how this all works. And if you need advice, certainly reach out, you can go to wealthy, fill out the forms, and we’ll get you to wind rock. And you know, they are our registered investment advisor. And, you know, Brandy will be the one helping you when it comes to your retirement. And it’s never too late, obviously. And you know, start as early as you can, I guess and you know, let it there early you start the less you have to actually put away to get to your end goal, I would assume right.

Brandy Maben 32:39
100%? Yes. Start planning early.

Andrew Brill 32:42
Yeah. Thank you so much for joining us. Ready? Where can we find you on social media if you use that at all.

Brandy Maben 32:48
I am pretty MIA on social media. I’ll be honest, too much research, I always have to be on top of research. And I’m looking at x all the time, those little tidbits of what I like to follow her great. But currently the blog and the articles are my focus. So keep going to wind and read about our macro economic research and we’d love to touch base.

Andrew Brill 33:11
Thanks. Thanks so much for joining us many. This has been a wealth of information for for me, I hope our viewers got a lot out of it. And look, it’s never too late and you know, protect your money. That’s what you guys do. And we’ll we’ll try and send me your way. Thank you.

Brandy Maben 33:25
Thank you very much.

Andrew Brill 33:27
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