Recession or Boom? Exposing Hidden Crises in the Mark

Andrew Brill 0:00
Hello and welcome to Wealthion. I’m your host, Andrew Brill, the stock market indexes continue to move to record levels. economy seems to be in good shape. But is it really we’ll get to the bottom of what might really be going on coming up next.

Our mission here at Wealthion is to help all of us keep and grow our money. Well, fans, not just a channel, it’s a conversation with our community. So please keep the feedback coming. If there’s something you’d like us to talk about, or someone like you’d like to hear from, let us know. If you could like and subscribe the channel. We really appreciate it. Now let’s dive into our discussion. I’d like to welcome a veteran of Wealthion, Peter Boockvar. He is the chief investment officer at Bleakley Financial Group. He’s the editor of the Boock Report and a contributor to CNBC. Peter, welcome back.

Peter Boockvar 0:50
Good to be here. Thank you.

Andrew Brill 0:52
Let’s dive right into it. I’ve heard some of your commentary, you’re not as bullish on the economy, as many others are,

Peter Boockvar 0:59
the economy is very much a mixed bag. And you can really slice it up and points to that you have the high end consumer, which is spending robustly on travel, leisure, hospitality, going out for dinner, going to concerts, going to sporting events, but not spending as much on goods, you have the lower middle income consumer, that’s prioritizing their spend being very quote unquote, choice for, as the CFO of Walmart said, on their spend, you have the pace of housing transactions of existing homes, the slowest in about 30 years, but you have better new home builds as more supplies needed. You have manufacturing that’s in a global recession. Then you on the other hand, you have all this government spending, and tax incentives that’s helping to lift the manufacturing of, of manufacturing facilities, in addition to infrastructure spent, global trade is relatively muted. You have capital spending on AI, but you have less capital spending. On other things. We’re on a net basis. capital spending was pretty flattish in q3 q4. So people like to talk in platitudes and homogeneous things, the economy is great, the economy’s bad, it’s in an expansion and recession. But I think it’s more important to dig under the hood, and see where the strengths its strength is, and where are the weaknesses?

Andrew Brill 2:23
So you know, I get all that and the consumer spending really troubles me because, you know, you see everybody spending all this money. And like you said, it’s on, you know, luxury items, or things that are just going to make them happy. It’s not really on the durable goods side, what economic indicators do you look at to look at everything other than what you just said? What are the things that you’re looking at, to get to where you’ve just mentioned, and, you know, realize the economy’s not as rosy, as everyone says it is?

Peter Boockvar 2:56
Well, in addition to looking at all the different data points, I listened to an extraordinary amount of earnings conference calls, whether it’s stocks that we own, or stocks that we don’t own that, that always tell a good macro story, either up or down. So if you listen to a lot of company calls, I would say the economy is pretty mediocre. And a lot of economists and macro people out there that talk about how great the economy is, or not listening to these calls, that they’re pointing to, you know, a much more mixed situation.

Andrew Brill 3:30
When you listen to these calls. Obviously, it’s the financials, they’ve kind of happened in the past, we look at forward guidance, is the forward guidance, something that you’re looking at and listening to and saying, Well, you know, given the numbers, I’m not sure how they’re going to reach where they are or given the numbers. That seems far fetched. How are you interpreting what they’re talking about going forward?

Peter Boockvar 3:51
Well, I still think that there’s very limited visibility for companies, they don’t know what the Fed is going to do. They talk a lot about a challenging macro environment. If you’re a big multinational, you seeing a recession in Germany, and for the euro region, in total, basically no growth, you see weakness, and China. On the other hand, you see strength in India and other parts of the Asia. So it’s very much a mixed bag, and I don’t think company CEOs are really putting themselves out there in terms of confidence in their guidance. I mean, definitely with guidance, there’s a level of, of vision out there based on, you know, order rates and so on. But I think people still acknowledge that there’s a lot of cloudiness out there, that they’re just trying to get through quarter to quarter.

Andrew Brill 4:38
What kind of cloudiness Are you referring to?

Peter Boockvar 4:41
Well, in the interest rate side, if you’re in commercial real estate, and you have loan coming due, which there’s a lot of cloudiness this year, if you’re selling to the US consumer, yeah, right now, things seem to be good depending on on what type of consumer you’re you’re selling to, but other consumers are not. So I think it’s just a very different called macro environment. And in terms of trying to forecast it, I don’t think I’ve seen this many mixed signals. In all the years I’ve been doing this,

Andrew Brill 5:09
you and you talk about interest rates and manufacturing, or the interest rates, keeping the manufacturing at a low level or, you know, because it’s obviously harder and harder to borrow money, but more expensive to borrow money at this point to grow inventories.

Peter Boockvar 5:23
Well, manufacturing is in recession, mostly because consumers have shifted their spend to services from goods over the past year plus. And also a year ago, a lot of retailers got overloaded with excessive inventories. And they’ve been very disciplined in trying to right size, their inventory levels. And I think that that can be said, for a lot of different parts of the economy, that the inventory situation is getting more in line, but there hasn’t really been any impetus yet to restock. Because consumer spending is still somewhat muted. On the good side,

Andrew Brill 5:57
the consumer spending numbers are still relatively pretty good. You expect those to continue?

Peter Boockvar 6:02
Not really on an after inflation adjusted basis, they’re rather mediocre.

Andrew Brill 6:06
So you can expect that to continue to come down a little bit,

Peter Boockvar 6:09
but we’ll have to see the trajectory of inflation. That’s even, you know, a mixed bag and inflation is moderating surfaces side is going to continue to moderate. But all of a sudden, you have gasoline prices at the highest level since November, because oil is at dollars. And we have the possibility that goods prices are bottoming out. So there are a lot of moving parts here to such an extent that it’s very difficult to really call and I think the Fed is going to have their own internal confusion on what to do. And certainly with the giddiness that the markets had the end of last year thinking that the Fed was going to cut six times this year that has been dramatically reined in. But even two to three, the Fed is still uncertain and wondering whether and when to pull that trigger.

Andrew Brill 6:54
So you think that there’s a lot of credence being paid to what Jerome Powell might say this week? Because that’s going to, again, look at forward guidance on when there might be a rate cut?

Peter Boockvar 7:04
Yeah, I mean, it’s with the stock market doing what it’s doing. You wonder what’s being restricted in the economy, and why should they even cut interest rates. On the other hand, if you’re in real estate, you’re desperate for interest rate cuts. So it’s a very difficult juggling act here on the part of the Fed,

Andrew Brill 7:21
even with the interest rates where they are, obviously, housing starts are down a little bit. First time home purchases were down a little bit. But the interest rates in terms of a mortgage aren’t really that bad. We’ve seen much worse in the past. But they’re not that bad. It’s obviously more expensive to borrow money right now than it has it has been over the last several years. But the interest rates aren’t impossible, I guess I want to say,

Peter Boockvar 7:51
Well, on an absolute level, yes. But the problem with interest rates where they are, is it comes after 15 years of zero. So yeah, mortgage rates, historically speaking at around seven isn’t that bad. But when it’s more than double it was just a couple of years ago. Well, that’s a shock to the to those that are trying to buy a house. If you were in commercial real estate and you borrowed a three, but your loans coming due when it’s repricing it eight or nine? Well, that’s a tough thing. Historically. Yeah, maybe you’d make work, but not after it was up from three

Andrew Brill 8:23
more people are looking into renting rather than buying do you expect that trend to continue? Even though rents have come down slightly? Do you expect people to rent until they are able to until interest rates come down and they’re able to buy something at a rate they’re happy with?

Peter Boockvar 8:37
Yeah, rental growth has been pretty strong for years. And if you include the rollover of existing leases, rents are still rising, even though they’re rising at a much slower pace, because because the decline or flatlining of new leases, but renewal rent leases are still rising, and about three to 4%. And yes, with home prices are record highs on top of more than doubling and mortgage rates, there is going to be a pretty persistent demand for rentals. Now, luckily, from the renter perspective, there’s a lot of supply coming online this year, but a million units. But after that is absorbed, which it will be 2025 2026, you’ll start to see a rise in rents again, because there’s really very little new shovels being put in the ground to build a new multifamily apartment because of the current cost of capital, and because of the moderating rents that we’re seeing.

Andrew Brill 9:28
So the cost of capital is really keeping the building at a minimum at this point.

Peter Boockvar 9:33
Well for new construction, yes, but there’s a lot of construction that started a couple years ago before this rate spike. Once that gets gets absorbed. You’ll see a big drop off in new supply.

Andrew Brill 9:45
I guess that’s because of the goods are being more expensive. And to borrow money to put these things together are also probably more expensive as well, because to borrow that money is going to cost the builder more money.

Peter Boockvar 9:57
Exactly mean deals. Just don’t pencil out when you’re done. are on rate is eight to 12% versus three to four,

Andrew Brill 10:04
we had talked about people spending more things on leisure goods. Why do you think that is at this point, rather than on durable goods, I know that during the pandemic, everybody did work on their house, because they were home a lot. And I guess that work was done. But there’s still other things that people could buy, rather than spend money on, you know, going on a trip or a really nice meal or, you know, leisure goods, things that are just going to make them happy, that’s that, that trade off between the durable good, and something that’s going to make them just feel good?

Peter Boockvar 10:33
Well, you’re not going to redo your kitchen every three years, or put in a swimming pool. Again, since you already have one. So there is there was a lot of pull forward, that took place with with spending at least on things around the house. And now you have I said a 30 year low and the pace of existing home transactions. Well, if a home is not if someone’s not leaving one home to move into another, and someone is not moving into the sellers home, well, you don’t need to buy carpet, you don’t need to buy paint, you don’t need to buy new flooring, you don’t need to buy new furniture. So there’s also activity there, that doesn’t get done. You look at the auto sector, yeah, auto sales are hanging in, but you know, their affordability issues there as well. And dealers are now having to rely on incentives to move products. And even on the home side. For new builders, they’ve had to deal with incentives in order to entice someone to buy a home, whether that’s buying down a mortgage rate or a teaser rate, or discounting the house or giving extra stuff. There’s been, you know, a need to incentivize to buy this stuff. So if someone’s going to use their discretionary money, and they’re not buying other stuff, maybe there’s maybe they’re buying a handbag, for example, or we’re wood or jewelry. But they’re not buying the big ticket stuff to the same extent, which then frees up money to go see a Taylor Swift concert, for example.

Andrew Brill 12:07
Which wouldn’t be cheap, by the way.

Peter Boockvar 12:10
Certainly not.

Andrew Brill 12:11
Salaries seem to be on the rise. Is it possible that people have a little bit more expendable cash in their pocket, because salary is on the rise, and they’re not spending that money on durable goods, but maybe they’re saving a little bit more, and spending a little bit more on things that are gonna make them happy, it’s a salaries come into play there, because they’re a little bit on the rise?

Peter Boockvar 12:32
Yeah, wages and salary growth has been pretty good. It’s definitely plateaued, maybe moderating a bit. But if you look at the last couple of years, it’s been running at least at about double the pace of wage gains pre COVID. So that’s definitely been sort of a mitigating factor to the sharp rise in inflation we’ve seen over the last couple of years. And now that inflation now wage growth is actually above the the the rate of inflation, we’re seeing some real wage gains. But that, of course, comes after very notable cumulative rise in inflation, relative to wage gains. So it’s sort of just a catch up. But that’s why the consumer still is hanging in there. But, you know, again, there’s still consumers that are searching for value. I mean, it tells you something when Walmart says for multiple quarters in a row, that more than people making over 100 grand are shopping at their stores. People are not doing that, because you know, Walmart’s got this great apparel section, it’s maybe because people are looking for more value.

Andrew Brill 13:30
Yeah, I think that that’s and look, I think even if you had the money, you should be looking for value. That just makes sense. Let’s talk about the expenditures versus the the price index, the Consumer Price Index, obviously, what the expenditures reported by businesses, the Consumer Price Index reported by consumers, there seems to be a discrepancy there not a discrepancy, but a gap there that’s higher than usual. Usually, it’s around point 4%. Right now it’s hovering around 1%. Is that troublesome at all? Is that a signal of some sort?

Peter Boockvar 14:02
It’s a measure on on on how those two numbers are calculated. I don’t like PCE because the biggest component is health care. And the biggest component of healthcare is Medicare and Medicaid reimbursement rates that the government price fixes. So I don’t know why the Fed has that as their leading inflation gauge, when the biggest chunk of the of the number is being manipulated in price fixed by the government. CPI has a lower health care weighting and health care that’s measured by out of pocket expenses, which seems to be more real life and has a bigger component in housing, which in reality actually measures you know, the average renters income that is dedicated to rent is better captured percentage wise and CPI and PC so I think PC is a flawed number. And but the discrepancy between the two is has to do with what I just mentioned with the two biggest components,

Andrew Brill 15:02
how are we looking at inflation the wrong way? Like you just said that? You know, you don’t like the expenditures number, Is there someplace else we can look? I mean, in the day of analytics and sports, everybody is looking for that competitive advantage and waste again, is there a way to look at inflation and say, Okay, this is the real number, there seems to be all kinds of opinions. But is there a way to look at it where we can really get a true picture?

Peter Boockvar 15:28
Well, there’s something called True flexion, which measures a lot of different goods and service prices every single day. So that’s actually a pretty good up to the minute indicator. The only problem with that one is that it doesn’t seasonally adjust. So if there’s discounting around the holidays, rental prices usually decrease November, December, January, starts to increase in February, March. But true inflation doesn’t seasonally adjust for that. So that’s the one flaw with that number, even though it is a pretty timely measure of a variety of different prices.

Andrew Brill 16:04
And what goes into true flexion that we wouldn’t ordinarily think about, not

Peter Boockvar 16:09
just measuring 1000s and 1000s, of prices, and all different things. But it’s something that spits out a number of, I believe, every day, as opposed to having to wait every month for CPI and PCE.

Andrew Brill 16:23
So it’s like the the more data you have, the more precise you can be obviously.

Peter Boockvar 16:28
Right. But again, I give a caveat that it doesn’t seasonally adjust. So we just have to acknowledge that when we’re, you know, don’t look at December rental prices into inflation, watching them slow and think oh, wow, you know that that’s going to be the case for the rest of the following year. It just seasonally happens to slow in December, as people are focused on the holidays and not looking for to move.

Andrew Brill 16:53
Peter, one of the things that the Fed seems to look at is unemployment numbers. And they seem to be very good, or I should say the reported numbers seem to be very good at this point. But, you know, we’re getting talk of layoffs left and right. I think January was the biggest, you know, reported layoff month since 2009. When will this affect the economy because there’s a lot of people out there now without work, but for some reason, or going to be without work, but for some reason, it’s not being reported in the numbers.

Peter Boockvar 17:30
Well, the labor market is another confusing aspect of this economic analysis, you have the pace of firings, as measured, measured by jobless claims relatively muted. As certainly a lot of companies that had difficulty getting workers back after COVID aren’t looking to get rid of them so quickly. They want to hold on to them. But then you have continuing claims, which are multi year highs, measuring a slowdown in the pace of hiring, you’ve had the establishment survey within the BLS number of being very strong. But the household survey being somewhat soft, you have job openings that are slowing, you also have ADP which has shown much more softer jobs increases relative to the BLS. And you also have like zip recruiter, for example, that’s an online staffing firm that has seen very modest growth for quarters now talking about the slowdown in the pace of hiring. So a lot of mixed signals. But I think net net, the pace of hirings slowed pace of firing still remains very muted.

Andrew Brill 18:43
Are we looking at Peter the jobs that are becoming available, the hiring, that everybody’s talking about? Are we looking at lower paying jobs and the people who are getting laid off or fired, not being able to find something in the economic range that they were there before? In other words, they’re gonna have to take a pay cut, to go back to work. So maybe they’re waiting a little longer to go back to work?

Peter Boockvar 19:07
That’s possible. But I it’s hard for me to measure that. And to what extent, you know, I still think that depending on what industry you’re in, really mostly if you’re in a business where you need people physically on site, whether that is an airline or hotel, or a restaurant where you need people there. They’re still labor shortages here in the air and, and wage growth is still pretty persistent. If you’re in tech that over hired over the last couple of years, that’s where there’s been certainly a level of softness. And depending on construction, for example, or manufacturing, you know, it’s been a mixed picture manufacturing is in a recession, as I said, therefore, there’s less need for workers on construction if you’re building, you know, a battery plant in Kansas City B Because of government incentives, will you have a job? But if you’re in new build in residential and commercial? Well, I don’t really see too many new office buildings going up.

Andrew Brill 20:10
So are there different aspects of the economy that could be in a recession? And some aspects that are doing obviously, AI seems to be, you know, doing okay, because, or anything involved in AI seems to be doing okay. But are there, there are parts of the economy that are already in recession? Well,

Peter Boockvar 20:28
I mentioned earlier manufacturing around the world in a recession, the existing home market is in a recession, the lower income consumers in their own personal recession, global trade, is maybe in a recession. And then obviously, you have offsets. But yeah, they’re parts of the global economy, certainly in a recession, if you’re in the comfort, and if you’re in the residential real estate market in China, you’re in a rather deep recession,

Andrew Brill 20:56
In your opinion, parts of the economy are in recession, everybody’s talking about this soft landing, is this going to be a little bit harder than we expected?

Peter Boockvar 21:05
It remains to be seen, I don’t even know how to define a soft landing. I think a lot, I think a lot will depend on it with the interest rate situation, I think a lot has to do with the stock market. If the stock market hangs in, then maybe we can avoid a harder landing in the economy or even a recession. If the stock market rolls over for whatever reason, well, then that strengthen the hiring and consumer could be threatened. And you can be sure that the higher end consumer is not going to be spending as much if the s&p is of 3000 relative to 5000. So that is also a key sort of factor in where the economy goes over the next year or two.

Andrew Brill 21:48
Yeah, one of our Fed chairman wants to call it irrational exuberance in terms of the stock market. Are we there? Because it seems like no matter how, and the numbers haven’t been bad, but how, you know, you look at the numbers and say, okay, they’re starting to come down a little bit, but the stock market just keeps rocketing. Are we, you know, irrationally exuberant at this point in terms of the stock market?

Peter Boockvar 22:10
Well when you’re trading at 24 times, trailing 12 month earnings estimates, with the fastest 40 year in 40 years rising interest rates. Yeah, there is a level of giddiness and sort of nonchalance about the rising rates, and the belief that somehow, we’ve run into trouble, the Feds just going to cut rates and everything’s going to be fine. I think when the video adds $230 billion in market cap, because they raised revenue guidance by 2 billion, that’s a level of irrational exuberance. But that doesn’t tell you anything about where the markets go in the short term at all, just tells you that we’re stealing some from some future returns. But you know, this kind of behavior can last but it doesn’t seem like it’s on on firm footing, when it just sort of gets carried away on on pure momentum, and chasing rather than anything else. Now, in the videos, numbers were phenomenal. I’m not going to pick on a video, but I just think it’s important just to have some perspective on the market cap move relative to the numbers that they reported.

Andrew Brill 23:17
So I’m going to ask you to put in our psychologist hat for a moment, because you’re the investment advisor. But is it okay to miss out on this run? I mean, knowing that the stock market traditionally continues to rise a little bit, but should we forego the like quick cash in our pocket and just say, Look, you know, what, sit back, enjoy the, you know, the smaller games that are going to go over a longer period of time? Or should we try and hop on this? There’s that fear of missing out? And we need to kind of get away from that. I guess if because if you know, if you jump on the short ride, there could be a very short full as well, I would assume.

Peter Boockvar 23:58
Well, personally, I have no fear of missing out if something gets away from me, I don’t really care. Maybe there’s some frustration missing out when you see certain things going through the roof. But that’s it now if someone wants to just sort of trade and like the casino mentality of the stock market? Yeah, I guess they can hop on board. But we look at the markets as investors. And that’s not how we play the game. We look for long term opportunities and have a long term time horizon. And luckily our clients in our in some of these names are ready, that we don’t have the the pressure of chasing. But chasing is never really a good strategy over a long period of time, may work in the short term, but it’s never really a good long term strategy.

Andrew Brill 24:47
I want to talk a little about a long term strategy which is a gold and precious metals. And is that something that you would suggest getting into or something that some of your clients are in?

Peter Boockvar 24:58
So I’ve been a bull on precious metals for yours. So we’re already in. And I’ve been telling people to get in for years now, it does seem that finally, gold is about to have its day with it closing this past Friday and will again today at a Closing record high. And this is something that goes back 5000 years. I do expect further upside. I do expect silver to catch up. And I do expect the miners which are badly so badly lagged, to also catch up as well. So we’re pretty bullish have been and remain so

Andrew Brill 25:36
Peter, tell me how gold works. A lot of people say you know, you buy gold, and it’s like a piece of art kind of hanging on the wall, leave it there, forget about it. It’s an investment is that I mean, gold is obviously commodity something you buy and you hold on to, it seems like people are talking about it more like a security at this point. How does it work with gold? Is it something you should buy and hold on to for a long period of time? If that’s the case, when do you sell it?

Peter Boockvar 26:03
Well, gold is money. And it has been as I said, for 5000 years, now you’re not going to go to your local restaurant and pay your dinner with a gold coin in terms of of a medium of exchange, even though of course you can run to the gold dealer, exchange it for dollars and then go to the restaurant, of course, but central banks are not buying gold hand over fist because they you know, it’s like art on the wall. They saw that the US in the EU confiscated half of Russia’s foreign central bank reserves. And a lot of central banks which hold monetary reserves said you know what, maybe I should own more gold. In my hand, rather than buying US Treasuries. Gold is traded extraordinarily well last couple of years in the face of a strong dollar relative to some currencies, and a very sharp rise in interest rates. And that told you all you need to know about the strong bid under gold from the central banks while the Western world via ETFs. I’ve been selling gold hand over fist for a while now. But at some point, I think that’s going to change reverse back. And investors are going to realize that in today’s somewhat chaotic world, particularly with not just on the geopolitical side return, particularly the financial side. Sorry, with us debts and deficits. That gold has really maintains its level of purchasing power over the years, unlike the dollar, which over the past 100 years, has basically lost 90% of its purchasing power.

Andrew Brill 27:38
A lot of people some now are comparing Bitcoin to gold. I don’t think they compare. But Bitcoin in the last couple of weeks has shot up as well. What’s your view with Bitcoin? Is that all something that people get in cuz should get into as well?

Peter Boockvar 27:55
Well, I have no opinion on the price of Bitcoin, it’s obviously getting a help from all these ETFs where money is piling into and therefore the ETFs are buying Bitcoin. So that’s just, you know, a short term supply demand imbalance. So I really have no idea where the price is going to go. Bitcoin has been, you know, up until this last run, you know, people thought it would sort of replace gold. But, you know, something that’s less than 20 years old, doesn’t replace something that’s 5000 years old, or they can complement each other. I still think that remains to be seen what Bitcoin will be when it grows up. Not sure. And but you know, it’s a great speculative instrument right now, we perceive to be a store of value right now, because of its limited quantity. But you know, Mickey Mantle’s in 1968, or limited quantity too, and they’re not making any more of that. And, you know, I don’t see that having the same price performance as Bitcoin. And I’d rather own a 1968 Mickey Mantle than Bitcoin.

Andrew Brill 28:57
What’s the best investment advice you’ve ever gotten? Or given?

Peter Boockvar 29:01
I guess, I don’t think of along those terms of the best. I think that there are a few different things of just when you’re going to invest in approach the markets. By You understand, don’t buy somebody else’s stock pic. There’s no one way of making money and markets, everyone has their own style that suits their own personality. And I think risk management is probably one of the most important parts of the investment world and being able to look in the mirror and acknowledging when you’re wrong

Andrew Brill 29:30
in the volatile situation we’re in with the market up and down. How do you minimize the risk?

Peter Boockvar 29:38
Just constantly researching my thesis and, and trying to come to terms with when I feel like I’m wrong and when I’m not? I don’t think there’s necessarily one way of managing that risk. It’s also keeping positions within an amount of manageable percentage of the total portfolio. But I think just constantly reassessing your thesis is a great risk. management tool.

Andrew Brill 30:00
Peter, thanks so much. I really appreciate I know we can find you on substack. You’re the editor of the book report. And we can find you on CNBC from time to time. But where else can people find you like on social media?

Peter Boockvar 30:13
Well, I’m on Twitter at @pboockvar, B-O-O-C-K-VAR. And also, if they’re interested in wealth management services, they can check out our website at Bleakley.com.

Andrew Brill 30:23
Anything that about this market right now that really, really bothers you that, you know, you sit back and say, you know, I, this is really bothering me. It’s not reality at this point.

Peter Boockvar 30:36
You know, I’ve heard for decades don’t fight the Fed. And it seems like the stock market’s waking up every day desiring to fight the Fed.

Andrew Brill 30:45
Do you have an opinion? Or do you have a feeling of what Jerome Powell might say, this week?

Peter Boockvar 30:51
I think he is going to sound as confused as I am on the the economy, therefore, not giving into the markets desire for many rate cuts, I think the the market has finally begun to price that in. I think Jay Powell was very afraid of watching inflation flare up again. And he doesn’t want to see that happen on his watch. And I think the other thing that’s going to be very important to hear from Jay Powell is what his plans are for the balance sheet.

Andrew Brill 31:16
Peter, thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it and your insights are obviously always valuable. And it’s always a good talk and we would love to have you back on again if you’d have us.

Peter Boockvar 31:26
Great. Absolutely, I appreciate being on.

Andrew Brill 31:28
That’s a wrap on another disucssion here on Wealthion thank you for joining us. If you need help being financially resilient, please head on over to Wealthion.com. Sign up for a free no obligation consultation from one of our vetted registered investment advisors and remember to follow us on social media for the latest news and information to help you invest wisely. Thank you for watching, and until next time, stay informed, stay empowered, and may your investments flourish