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Buckle up for an episode of Speak Up with Anthony Scaramucci that’s set to shake the foundations of your financial thinking. Joining us is none other than Grant Cardone, the real estate tycoon and investment guru whose insights can turn the tide of your wealth journey. Today, we’re not just scratching the surface. Anthony and Grant are diving deep into the brewing storm in the real estate sector and what it means for your investments.


Anthony Scaramucci 1:00
All right, we’re live. Maybe I didn’t realize we were live. That’s the beauty of being live. This is speaker with Anthony Scaramucci. I am joined by one of my favorite people and somebody that I met on my book tour. I don’t know if you’ll remember that grant, but she brought me on your TEDx show. On my book tour, I said, this is a guy that I need to have in my life and learn from Welcome to speak up with Anthony Scaramucci grant, it is a thrill to have you on with us.

I’m gonna let you get started. So what are you thinking about in the world right now? And then I want to talk a little bit about your origin if that’s okay, how you built yourself up to where you are. We’ve got a ton of aspirational listeners. They tune in, they call in they send us emails, I want them to get the real Grant Cardone on this show today. And so that they can tap into your mindset after they leave the show. But grant, welcome to the show.


Grant Cardone 1:56
Well, Anthony, thank you, man. I’m a big fan of yours. As you know, you know, I’ve always been very supportive of you watch you for a long time, you’ve been a big inspiration to me. And I think, you know, the show that you’re doing speak up. It’s very hard to speak up to have confidence. This one of the things I admire most about people is to see people that go do things that they haven’t done before. And what I always wonder about is dude, how do they have the confidence to do something they’ve never done before? Believe it’s going to work. When most people around you are telling you can’t work won’t work. That is too risky. So just the fact that you’re doing this and bringing in aspiration and inspiration at a time in a world where it’s so negative. I really appreciate your time and energy to do this.

Anthony Scaramucci 2:42
So let’s let’s go to you though you’ve grown up in Louisiana, you have a twin brother. Yeah, you are. You started with nothing. And now you but you realize that you’re in the land of opportunity. This is an aspirational America. So how do you go from being a Grant Cardone to the Grant Cardone, take us through some of those steps.


Grant Cardone 3:05
Well, look, man, I mean, you know, in the beginning, you just have a dream, right? I remember being a little kid, my dad taught me a lesson about money. My dad only lived until I was 10. And I remember him telling me two things at eight years old that became critical later on in my life. One was, your name has everything. You know, protect it, defend it. Don’t damage it. And the second thing was I wait, I lost a quarter one day. And dude, the guy came down on me so hard. I thought I’d like done some like he’s like, never played with money. That’s why you lost what

Anthony Scaramucci 3:45
What year was this though? Grant because I want to I want to inflation adjust what a quarter once was so

Grant Cardone 3:50

Anthony Scaramucci 3:52
All right. So I mean, you’re talking about you know, probably without exaggeration, 10 bucks now or I mean, honestly, right.

Grant Cardone 3:58
Yeah. Could be you know, could be but I didn’t know what it would buy it would have bought like, it would have bought those big bubble. You remember the big super bubble gums man they were when they were?

Anthony Scaramucci 4:09
You know, and I remember that.

Grant Cardone 4:11
Things have not just got more expensive. They also got smaller at the same time.

Anthony Scaramucci 4:15
That’s that’s for sure. Yeah. Expensive, smaller. But we’ve done that. This is why real estate is such an important thing to have in people’s portfolio. So so your dad’s teaching you about money?


So you’re you’re getting your career started? Yeah, well, what is the transformation? What was the how do you take the dreams? There’s a lot of people listening right now. They, they, they’re dreamers. Yeah, they’re in a job. Maybe they’re about to start a new job. Maybe they don’t want a job and want to be entrepreneurs. How do you set the ignition? How do you set the spark

Grant Cardone 4:50
Well, you gotta, you know, there’s a bunch of lessons along the way. You know, this lesson was, hey, don’t play with money that really hit me hard. And then my grandfather about 30 minutes later was in the same house with me at the same time, we had a small house, about 1400 square feet, seven of us live there, Grandfather was visiting that day. And my grandfather said, Son, never go anyplace with one quarter. So I got two lessons the same day about money. One was don’t play with money. And the other day, the other message was, do you need to create some abundance. Now I would not tap into these messages until way later in my life, right. But my dad would die two years later, I was then raised by single mom for the next seven, eight years, and watch her suffer. And that became Anthony, because I noticed about some of your humble beginnings that would become really the lessons. And the inspiration of watching the pain of just getting by never getting a break. Always worried about the plumber, the car dealer, the roofer coming over to take advantage of the single mom. And so I decided they just 16 in a rebellious, very angry moment. With my mom. We were middle class, right? So we had we had air conditioned heater and food. The refrigerator always had some food in it. But I was I told my mom, I said, I will grow up one day and be a rich man, I will be rich again. I’m gonna be wealthy one day, and my mom was so pissed off at me. She’s like, be grateful for what we have and look what I’ve done for you. And I’m like, No, I am not grateful for this. I do not want to be scared all the time. I don’t want to be fearful. I don’t want to have to go to the store not be able to get what I want. I don’t want to clip coupons because that’s the environment I was brought up in a brought up and it’s only gotten worse for most people over the last 50 years. But that really kind of set me Anthony on, on my way. Now along the way, I got lost for 10 years, I became i i had some people kind of got a hold of me and misdirected my energy and my my, my, my intentions. And my goodness, I became a drug addict for 10 years of my life.

Anthony Scaramucci 7:08
Like right about that. I remember that in one of your books.

Grant Cardone 7:12

Anthony Scaramucci 7:13
And you’re not now though, right? I mean, you cleaned all that up?


Grant Cardone 7:17
Well, yeah. 25 I mean, I haven’t used drugs for 41 years 25 I cleaned up. And then that’s when my journey really started. 25 years old, I started self educating, started studying people successful people, and made a commitment to myself improvement, my self esteem, my self respect. And along the way, started when I started believing more in myself, I started also becoming interested in going back to those lessons that my dad and my grandfather taught me about money.

Anthony Scaramucci 7:52
Well, you know, I love this part of the story because of people listening in, no matter what the business is how you’re going to build a business, the first thing you have to do is build yourself. It’s a combination of discipline, self taught 100 self talk, it’s nutrition. It’s getting up in the morning, going after things, putting lists together. We’re gonna get into real estate business in a second. But we like starting these shows with the proverbial question of what keeps you up at night grant. What is it that keeps you up at night?

Grant Cardone 8:26
Shit, you know sometimes I just gotta go take a piss.

Anthony Scaramucci 8:32
Alright, but besides your my prostate problems and since Yeah, you know, my, my prostate flipped as I got older with my bladder, my bladder used to be the size of a watermelon. And my prostate was the size of a Walmart they flipped on me. Yeah, yeah. Forget, forget the fact that you got to get it for that reason what worries you?

Grant Cardone 8:50
You know, the I mean, the things that worried me the most or am I doing right by my kids, the economy doesn’t worry me too much. I now have 40 years of experience knowing whether it’s a Democrat or Republican, a good economy or bad economy. I trust my ability, not my money, I don’t trust my money, I trust my ability to to, to produce and take care of myself, whether there’s whether I have what I have today or not. And so but you know, being a good father, being a good husband, you know, I’m like, Man, I’m not a good husband. I don’t I’m not patient enough with my wife. I don’t show her enough attention. Like that stuff bothers me and, and like, dude, how long am I going to live? How much how much can I do but before before, you know, I retired this body and can’t make an effect. Now. Some of this other stuff bugs me, you know, I think I think you know, the the economy, the inflation, the government, the way we spend money and waste money, but something that I can’t control so I just need to go to sleep.

Anthony Scaramucci 9:52
So it’s more it’s really good insight as a business person you focused on the things that you can control. And then you compartmentalize your worry like what I can’t control that. But what I can’t control is getting a good night’s sleep so that I can concentrate on my core businesses and concentrate on the people I love. I want to drill deeply into real estate. I want you you know we got time on the show The great part about this show is it’s not a network show where your three minutes in three minutes out ladies and gentlemen, that’s one part owned by buy. I want you to take a moment and say Ladies and gentlemen, I chose real estate as a core theme for my investment strategy. Here are the reasons why here are the pluses and minuses the real estate industry and this is how I think about it.

Grant Cardone 10:42
Yeah, so look, I mean, one of the reasons that sleep well is because I have real estate that’s not over leveraged so real estate is the like if you you’ve met a bunch of real estate guys compared to Wall Street guys compared to crypto guys. Real Estate guys are the most relaxed business people you’ll ever meet. They’re typically they don’t have any money on him because all their money’s in on hard assets. They’re not liquid. I think not being liquid is actually a benefit not a deficit. Wall Street would love to have everyone liquid like the casino would the casino wants the player to be liquid, meaning they have money to spend and gamble. I’m never liquid. I can’t get to my assets quickly. I don’t look at a phone every day to see what the assets are worth. There’s probably four and a half billion dollars worth of real estate. I started with three grand. You don’t need an education. You don’t need a license. You don’t need like like you need nothing to get in real estate. You don’t need to be an insider. You can actually get insider information. There’s so many advantages, the depreciation, the appreciation, the leverage the cashflow, see that, to me what I’ve always wanted, that my dad didn’t figure out, my dad died at 52. On Thursday, on Monday, he got his last check. And the company worked out would never pay him again. He cashed my mom cashed the life insurance on Tuesday, there was no more money. That’s over game’s over. If I died today, I have no life insurance. I think I got 20 $20,000 for the life insurance. So but I have you know, we got $4 billion worth of real estate the cash flow is a million 1,000,006 and free cash flow every month, whether I’m alive or dead. And just keeps growing as rents grow. So that you know when you asked me what keeps me up at night, not much inflation is good for me. I don’t have too much debt. We put long term financing on on 75 80% of our of our holdings have very long term financing, which could be good or bad. The negatives of real estate, the kind of real estate I buy. Now I’m not talking about single family homes because a lot of most audiences Anthony that I talked to they think real estate, I’m talking about a house. I don’t consider a house an asset. I do consider it a liability. I don’t even consider it a savings account. It’s a terrible investment. Most people should not do it. Wells Fargo Bank of America and Citibank benefited from people buying houses more than the individual ever did. Your audience will hate me for saying this. There’s nothing nothing people despise me saying more than this right here. I house is a shitty investment. It’s not even a good savings.

Anthony Scaramucci 13:38
I bought it because I’ve read your book. So I understand why you’re saying that. Because you buy it in a good area. They have a tendency to go sideways as it relates to appreciation. You’ve got lots of maintenance, it’s a utility for yourself. So you’re using it is a tool to raise your family. Most people, particularly wealthy people, by the way, they put more into the house, and they can actually get out of it. So if they’re renovating a bathroom or a kitchen, they want it to look right for them. But the next homebuyer comes in says, Hey, I don’t want that and they want to rip it out. And they won’t give me the value for it. But I want to I want to ask you a question about cycles and economy. For decades in business. You’ve seen how to be minimum eight or nine recessions. You’ve managed this real estate process. Well, you don’t have short term debt and you don’t have a high interest rate debt and your your percentage composition of equity to debt is manageable. So take us through your field guide. Tell us one. Are you ever worried about real estate corrections? Is there a correction coming? How could somebody protect their portfolio if there is one coming? That sort of thing?


Grant Cardone 14:51
Yeah, I think I think that we’re in the biggest real estate correction of my lifetime right now. The beginning stages The first half of any one this will be proportionately compared to say 2008 bigger. But this time it will not be individual families, it will be institutions names of which you are surrounded by and have done a lot of business with my prediction is we will have hundreds of banks fail because of this in this country, institutions will fail major institutions and pension funds will also be affected in this last cycle. In the last, let’s say, four years since 2020. The big institutions did whatthe individual family did in 2008. Basically, overleveraged at scale, like like a company called Color stone, you know, just pick a color, stone, you know, you know, these guys all have black or colors, gold, they got different colors, these guys overleveraged in their portfolios, too. And they use short term debt, they listened to the Fed, Jerome Powell was saying we will not raise rates, we will not raise rates, we will not raise rates in June of 2020. And then freaking, he cranked them. After everybody went and got a bunch of short term debt. They cranked there’s $2.7 trillion worth of adjustable corporate, institutional office, multifamily and retail shopping centers, hotels, on adjustable loans right now, about 700 billion will mature this year, 700 billion next year. And all this stuff is has to be written down probably to two thirds of the amount of debt, which will create a tremendous phenomenal opportunity for a guy like me to go pick up their assets.

Anthony Scaramucci 16:55
Okay, but let’s say you’re not a guy like you. Let’s say you’re just getting started. You’re there a guy like US Circuit 35 years ago. Yeah. Okay. So what do we do? So how do you know, you’ve got this crisis coming? Lots of this equity is going to get let go at distressed prices very reminiscent. You and I are old enough to remember the RTC, the Resolution Trust Corporation, this SNL crisis in the late 80s into the 90s. Yeah, what do you do your young man or woman, you want to take advantage of this opportunity in real estate? And this current cycle? What do you do?

Grant Cardone 17:31
What do you do? This is what I would do if I was 30 years old and had no money right now, if I was starting over. Okay, first, you got to know what not to do, do not go out and buy single family homes, there will be no correction in the single family home space. In fact, single family homes across the country are 1% over last year, when everybody’s waiting on a correction, this correction will not be in a single family home, it will probably not be in two and three and four units. It’s going to be in the bigger complexes. Now. The problem that that poses with people is like I don’t have the money for the downpayment. But people need to get educated about how to buy this kind of asset. This asset is actually easier to buy Anthony than it is to buy a single family home, if you can figure out the downpayment. Right, exactly. Okay, because I don’t need a credit score. I mean, this is literally a way for people to level the playing field. It is it is so unfair in this country. Two things make it very unfair. One is the non accredited, accredited status by the SEC. is discriminatory at best. At best, the idea that somebody needs 200 grand to make an investment, an alternative investment actually keeps the people like 90% of the population will never make 200 grand in their lifetime. Right? So the SEC has actually those rulings, the Congress is actually keeping people from being able to invest in the best thing. So that’s one thing I’m fighting for. The second piece is if you have a poor credit score five or 600, you’re not you’re not buying a house and you’re not buying two units. But if you would skip to 40 units, or 70 units, or 100 and figure out how to get the downpayment. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac will make you a loan on 70 units, that has nothing to do with your credit score and nothing to do with your income, because they will credit the income and the property. That’s who they’re given the loan to. So now what Americans need to do if I was 30 years old and didn’t have any money, I would find great assets that had cashflow that supported leverage, and then I would go figure out how to tell my community, uncles, aunts, moms, dads, brothers, sisters, people I’ve worked for I’d get an asset and then I would go tell my community about that asset. Because money is you know, a good Right asset, money, equity and debt will always follow a great asset that cash flows.

Speaker 1 20:05

Anthony Scaramucci 20:05
So how do you how do you identify what are some of the key checks on your checklist to identify a great asset? A great location?

Grant Cardone 20:15
Yep, cashflow 95% occupancy, it’ll support management. There’s job growth. And typically the rents are $200 lower than they should be in the market.

Anthony Scaramucci 20:30
Right. So there’s room for improvement. So this is typically a generational thing, right?

Grant Cardone 20:34
No, no, not even room for improvement. I don’t there’s there’s millions of units out there today, where, where you could simply go in with a change of ownership. You go from from Bin Bin apartments to Scarramucci apartments just about changing the name. And you walk on the property and tell everybody Hey, guys, a new sheriff in town, we’re going to take care of the property plant to palm trees. And that month, let’s say you had 70 units. Seven people are moving out that month, the next seven are going to get an increase the $200 And they’re going to take it.

Anthony Scaramucci 21:09
No, it makes sense. You know, my problem though, Mr. CARDONE is my my Italian name is online, you’re Italian, they might tell you names to blonde for these buildings. You know, you got that nice. You got that nice, cute Italian last name, you know, you can pop it on any building easily. We got some we got some people chatting with us and sending us emails. Let’s go to the first let me just

Grant Cardone 21:30
before you go to the chat. Okay, before we go to the insanity of the chat, go ahead. If you can find a 32 unit deal. Okay. And this is for your audience this is you’ll make a million dollars on every deal. I look, every deal that I look for I look for a million dollar score. If it doesn’t have a million dollar score and $2,000 of free cash flow that can be managed by third party, I won’t do the deal. So let me just do this math real quick live for you right here on the mooch channel. Okay. Every $200 on 32 units will make you $1.2 million. So the viewer would simply find a 32 unit or larger deal where the rents are 800, but should be 1000. You’re not going to improve anything. You’re not going to go put new kitchens in and new floors, that was overdone by the institutions, you would find something that is basically somebody bought 30 years ago or 20 years ago and they never raised the rents. Rents are still one half of the average mortgage in America, these rents have a long, long trajectory to grow in the future and they will. Sure.

Anthony Scaramucci 22:49
Alright, well let’s I mean, it makes sense. I mean, and I appreciate the specificity. The specifics, because our you know, we’re feedback, customer feedback loops show and people are like, hey, gotta get granular and get specific. With that. Let’s go to our first person in the chat, masked by gracious providing an endless supply of buyers, where people want to live. What’s your reaction to that? That Steve? Mix via chat,

Grant Cardone 23:17
Steve? Steve, Look, man, you’re already on to one of the great clues that I did not mention in that list of things that I just gave Anthony, which is migration patterns. You’re looking for positive migration. There’s, there’s two ways to look at migration. One is, hey, where are people going? Okay, when people move from New York to Miami, they do not buy a house first, they rent for about two to three years first. Some of them will rent for five or six or seven years, those are starting to move to drier and to warmer cities. They left and they’re moving and they have no intention of buying again. They don’t want to own a home ever again. They’ve already owned two or three homes and they’re like I’m done with maintenance. I don’t want to maintain anything. I mean, I have apartment I have an apartment building in Boca Raton right now. Migration has been mostly from New Jersey, New York, Boston. These people earn 400 grand a year from home and they could buy a house in Boca or Fort Lauderdale. They don’t want to they’re like I don’t want a house. I want to live at your place. The place is filled with cougars, your age Anthony.

Anthony Scaramucci 24:31
And they’re younger than me Cardone.

Grant Cardone 24:36
how old he is,

Anthony Scaramucci 24:37
I just turned 60 with it.

Grant Cardone 24:38
I don’t I don’t look as good as you when I’m your age. It will

Anthony Scaramucci 24:42
Yeah, you gotta be beat by a few years. Okay, I do follow you on Wikipedia as well. Don’t start. Don’t start.

Grant Cardone 24:48
I’m not on Wikipedia. That’s a garbage dump.

Anthony Scaramucci 24:50
No, I know. That’s why I said it because of that dinner that you and I have related to Wikipedia, but that’s an inside joke. So let’s go back to the migration guide.


Grant Cardone 25:00
What’s the positive migration? You have migration patterns going into Arizona right now big time, Utah big time into Texas. I mean, everybody knows the story about Texas, in Florida, everything Florida, Tampa, Orlando, Daytona, the entire east coast all the way down to Miami, Fort Lauderdale, palm, the Palm Beach, but also on the west side, Sarasota, Tampa, Fort Lauderdale do this. Like, it’s crazy. What’s going on?

Anthony Scaramucci 25:28
817,000 people have left the state of California in the last 20 months, 817,000 people. So, you know, it just tells you, you know, the taxes or price for services. If you’re going to take the taxes to the moon and the services or you know, who the hell knows you can’t get the right you can’t you can’t get things to work in these places. Hopefully they’ll fix it. We got one more guy in the chat here. Let’s fire in another question.

Grant Cardone 25:57
Can I answer the SEC before you move to the next job? Okay, there’s another part of the migration pattern. Okay, this migration pattern will flip. Okay, I don’t know what all the balloons are about. But the migration pattern flips. So I also look for when people are exiting to go back into those markets. So the best rental markets in America today. Drumroll, San Francisco and New York City. Yeah. Third is Los Angeles.

Anthony Scaramucci 26:25
Tell us why

Grant Cardone 26:27
these will be mega markets going forward in the future. If these if your local politicians, okay, these people that vote the way you do and act the way you do and think of what you do, okay, if they quit, like literally giving people reasons to leave the state, because you cannot build this this product anymore. You can’t have a place to live. The average rent in New York City day is 5700. If I could buy 1000 units in New York City good locations where there’s positive job growth, you know, not poor, I don’t even need that there. Because you got so much population, but at least I have a great location. That’s desirable. I bought 1000 units in New York City today.

Anthony Scaramucci 27:08
Interesting. Yeah. Middle assessor. It’s well said I’m glad you brought that up. Because it’s the reason why you’ve been so successful. is thinking outside the box and being a contrarian. This is a this is a great email actually coming in from rose. What is your take on the recent posts by the CEO of medium, saying that once commercial leases are up, landlords will go bankrupt in mass due to work from home? What’s your thought on that grid?

Grant Cardone 27:37
I think? Okay, great. Question. Rose. Excellent question. First of all, the remote work has failed. Every CEO without exception, that was pro work from home has reversed their opinion of it. i From the very start, we never closed our offices, I refuse to close our offices, anybody that wanted to work from home, I’m like you can, you can just stay home forever, but you’re not going to work at my place. And I got 1000 employees. Most people want to come work with other people. So that has been a failure. Number two, I don’t believe I believe offices will be a tremendous investment. And I agree with rose that many, many landlords will lose their properties. We just bought a deal from your old employer. Goldman Sachs, for 20 $20 million dollars less than they paid for it. They weren’t seven never had it more than 70% occupied. Well, they owned it for seven years. Anthony and we in seven days. I had it at 94% in seven days of ownership.

Anthony Scaramucci 28:52
Well, alright, well let it let let’s stay on that any other chats out there? Just ask him I control room. Any other any other ideas out there? Well, Big City office space convert to multifamily grant? What kind of revenue implications does that have at the local levels? And this is obviously from Chris Solis via chat, Chris, thanks for tuning in us. I appreciate it. And Chris, I owe you a call. So I I haven’t forgotten.


Grant Cardone 29:22
Yeah. And if Chris if he owes you a call, I owe you a call. So why I don’t believe 98% of office I’m making this number up will never be converted to multifamily. This is completely ridiculous conversation. If you’ve ever been in an office building and you’ve been in a nice multifamily apartment building, they’re completely different beast. You need bathrooms and 400 units, showers. You need light. Nobody wants to live in an apartment in an office building office buildings are built different than than apartments. So it’s much more likely that They would just take the building to the ground and start over and it would be cheaper. Tax revenue implications massive. This is why this is why Miami’s got such a forward, positive Look, do you got, you know, when Ken Griffin comes down here, it’s one thing when Kim brings in his entire company down here, it’s another thing. Goldman’s coming down here right now, the big tech companies are coming. I think Steve Ross is doing a deal with Ken Griffin, including the Miami Dolphins. Like they’re building a billion square feet of office in Miami, you couldn’t do that in New York today. So that’s going to affect the tax revenue implications of the city. And the last thing and Anthony mentioned this, look, when you penalize people, for being producers, at some point, they will leave. I left the state of California, just my tax revenue. Yeah. 13 years ago, I left the state of California, we do about we’ve done, I don’t know a billion dollars worth of sales over the internet, we do $750 million every year across all our platforms. A year, times 13 years. Yep, California’s got not one penny of that.

Anthony Scaramucci 31:20
Because I left it says crazy. I mean, they just don’t understand the value of intellectual capital and capital capital. And now of course, California is thinking about a wealth tax, that’ll just completely drive everybody that has any wealth and of the state. It’s just very demotivating demotivating, very disincentivizing.

Grant Cardone 31:41
And the thing is Anthony, I can go there and use the place I still use the resources of the state of California or New York, I come in, I use it, I abuse it. It’s like the states set themselves up to be treated like prostitutes, rather than rather than and I’ve never been with a prostitute. I want to make that clear. But but they you know, now I go use the state of California and their resources, their highways, their police their fire, I use all the resources without ever paying taxes there. I just get the best and then leave.

Anthony Scaramucci 32:11
Yeah, it’s interesting. It’s fair. It’s fair. It’s fair. It’s very true. So this to speak up with Anthony Scaramucci, 92843666249284366624. Before we before we go to a call or another chat question, tell us about managing the Debt Capital Markets. Tell us about some of the things you think about what’s your compass, when you’re thinking about putting on debt? Fixed debt, 15 year debt 30 year debt, armed debt? How do you think about it, sir?

Grant Cardone 32:47
Well, I’m a coward. So I have no personal debt amount, we have about $2.2 billion, where the data on the apartment portfolio 39 Different mortgages across the different properties. 34 of them are fixed, long term, five of them have adjustable money. And we have rate caps to protect against the, you know, something going haywire. We’re well funded. So like I just bought rate caps for to protect out for another two years, on some adjustables. Look there, the long term money is also risky, right? Because when I lock in on 10 or 12 years of debt, I can’t get out of that debt. That’s what a lot of people don’t understand. There’s a cost to that as well, because then I can rebuy that property or can’t sell it within 10 or 12 years, or up without some kind of defeasance or penalty. The short term debt though, that’s what that’s what keeps people up at night. And real estate. And I you know, I’m surprised that you’ve made this so heavy about the real estate but but I love real estate so I can talk about it for hours. The only time you have a real estate correction and Charlie Munger rest in peace was famous for saying this. The reason he hated real estate was because he said it was so stable for so many for so long. And the only time it has instability was when the debt market collapsed. Right, which is what I believe that we’re going to go into right now. We’re going to have we have an illiquid, dysfunctional debt market right now in present time is not being confronted. They’re kicking the can down the road hoping the Feds gonna somehow fix something and they can’t and and that that goes back to what I said earlier about the $700 billion where the loans coming due this year.

Anthony Scaramucci 34:44
Ya know, you can feel you can feel the pressure in the marketplace but i i stayed on the real estate stuff because when I made the announcement grant that you were coming on, it was a real estate heavy questions from the audience. Try to make it interactive with them. Before we go to another chat question, what other topics would you like to talk about? Because you are Grant Cardone you are a brand and a commodity onto your own. And so what what’s what’s top of mind for you right now?

Grant Cardone 35:16
Well, the real estate I love real estate, real estate is an investment play though real estate is not a way to make money today. So as you know, I’m involved in a number of different ventures we have 100, I’m partner, co founder or founder and 20 plus companies. We have a help business that you know, that business will probably sell for a billion dollars when I get ready to sell it might be close to that right now. With 19,000 Customers like money, you need money, you need money every month, your business has to make money. We have an event business that does I don’t know, 25 million bucks a year. We have an educational business that does 100 and $135 million, and that you have the health care business though to you. Then you Teemo Yeah, create great supplements health care Fusion business. How you think this happens, man?

Anthony Scaramucci 36:10
Looking cool. You got guns, man, you got guns you don’t have you don’t have those manboobs of somebody your age typically give you credit for that.

Grant Cardone 36:18

Anthony Scaramucci 36:19
I may or may not be wearing a bra. By the way. We’ll leave that to viewers to decide. Let’s take a chat. We got two more chat questions for we keep going. What happens in Los Angeles where people have not paid rent in a year. The rules are starting to be modified. This is from the good humor man. I love this guy that good humor man. He fires in a question every week. Thank you, sir. Strawberry Shortcake was my favorite from the good humor man. But you know, you know the point there’s the socialist ideas around ran, I guess the landlord should take care of a maintain the building and person should sit there and squat in the building? Yeah. What do you what do you do in a situation like that grant?

Grant Cardone 36:59
Yeah, this is again, why you avoid the smaller scale. I got a buddy that has 18 units. And Bakersfield just outside of where good humor is talking about nine of the 18 have not paid their rent for nine months. So when you go to a larger building, okay, particularly location centric. So that’s not going to happen in Santa Monica to two blocks from the beach. Because renters no and we’ve all been renters. I’ve never met anybody that wasn’t a renter at some point in their life. Renters know, that even if the law allows you for some period of time not to pay rent, that will follow you historically, and the next place you live will be worse than the last place you live. It’s interesting. So so for you guys that are investing don’t worry so much about people not paying most people will pay their bills. Most people are good people. Most people do not want to gain the system. Most renters know, they want a better life, not a worse life. Okay, but the way to protect yourself is location. Okay, but make sure you do not compromise the location to the property, pay more money to have a great location locations, you will pay for every day when you compromise that location, you can fix the property, you can never fix the location.

Anthony Scaramucci 38:23
It’s great insights. Great. So I wanted to bring you on. I’ve got another question in the chat. Let’s fire that up. I’m agreeing with most of a grant says however, when the correction impacts commercial multifamily properties and banks, it will bleed to the single family home space that’s changed his thought. Yeah. What say you there?

Grant Cardone 38:51
Well, James, nobody agrees with everything I say. Trust me, not even my wife, okay. Like this will not bleed over to single family. Okay, 90% of all the single family homes in this country are either paid for in cash or below 5% interest 40% Of all the loans in America have a 3% interest rate for 30 years. There is no way there will be a correction in single family homes impossible,

Anthony Scaramucci 39:20
but there just won’t be a lot of movement though. Right? I mean, the rating slowed down right because I you know, I have a you know, even me I put a mortgage on my house just for the tax I’m not leaving and why would I give up a two and five eighths 15 year fixed rate mortgage, where am I going? You know,

Grant Cardone 39:38
you won’t give it up until it’s two and five eighths again and it will be by the way, right?

Anthony Scaramucci 39:43
I agree with that.

Grant Cardone 39:44
We will see 0% interest rates again, we’ll probably see negative

Anthony Scaramucci 39:49
are we we have we have a caller coming in. Let’s go right to the live caller and

Grant Cardone 39:55
the show is rockin bro you got to show this.

Anthony Scaramucci 39:57
Again, I’m getting all kinds of great feedback on you By the way, yeah, it could be the guns. I think it’s the guns actually. Guest caller let’s let’s go. Yes sir. Welcome to speak up. Can you hear us sir?

Guest Caller 40:12
Hello, Can y’all hear me? Yes, sir.

Anthony Scaramucci 40:15
Welcome to speak up with the Mooch

Guest Caller 40:17
Awesome. Thank you all so much for coming here and giving us some insights for the housing market. I had a question to grant about the metaverse specifically. There. There’s digital land that’s limited. What are your thoughts about getting those limited digital lands and putting up storefront that allows you to still sell products or billboards for advertising to target those consumers in those blockchain communities? You find value in that?

Grant Cardone 40:45
Yeah. Well, I think we’re a long way from the metaverse, bro. I can’t even get Siri to understand how I speak in English. So like, I think this thing is so overplayed, I think the AI 98% 99% Of all the AI companies will fail and never produce a penny of revenue. Will there be some winners? Yes. The Metaverse think that was a nice way for Mark Zuckerberg to take the negative attention off of Facebook. And now we have meadowland. Okay, most people still can’t make money. Simply building a business. So whatever skill set you need in the real world, you will need in the Metta World, whatever skill set is going to benefit you online, you had to have that retail experience. Like we do. I don’t know we do $100 million a year just in online sales. We do another 100 touching people. So they’re not mutually exclusive. Now, anybody is not going to pay attention to technology as an idiot. I’m paying attention to it, but but I’m more worried about the internet going down. And you not be able to communicate with your customers than I am worried about.

Anthony Scaramucci 42:08
You know the metaverse Oh, I’m presenting. Tyler. Thank you. Tyler’s a regular chiming in here. We appreciate you calling in. Listen. Listen, Grant. I’ve always run into a little bit of overtime. I got my producers telling me I gotta pull ripcord because it shows going into OT. But I want you to say something to people. That 10x is then what is the motivating, like when I’m with you, I feel like I’ve got an electrical current going through me. I feel like I’ve got to get off the show right now do 1520 Push ups, three reps, and then maybe do some wind sprints out here in the snow. So give us give us something from the Grant Cardone mindset that my viewers and listeners can take with them. Until next week,

Grant Cardone 43:00
how much time do you have before your producer says you can’t talk anymore?

Anthony Scaramucci 43:04
Let’s go. I want you to risk you riff. And then when they number one, number one, we’ll call it we’ll call it the speaker with Grant Cardone as opposed as speaker with the mooch


Grant Cardone 43:15
Yeah, number one, I would tell you that you know, your producers, not 10x. Number two, look. 10x 10x is about orders of magnitude. It’s about you know, I want to read something that says the only reason people fail is because they underestimate the amount of effort required to succeed. And that hit me really hard to like every time I’ve ever failed, it’s only because I didn’t try enough times. Because if I try enough times that cannot fail. If you don’t quit, you won’t fail. Now, I know that sounds aspirational, inspirational. It sounds like oh my god walk on fire. That’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about numbers. This is simply a number. You know, if I ran for President enough times, I’d probably become the president. Now, I wouldn’t get it, I wouldn’t be able to do it the first time the way Trump did. But if I if I spent enough time, energy resources, learned how to speak correctly learn how to build a big enough audience. And I had enough time to do it and not quit. I’d probably pull it off. Like everything I’ve done in my life, I did without any knowledge of how to do it. And I would just tell people, like, I show people money, I show people success. I brag about it, show it off. I’m doing that. To give people an example. The example I didn’t have when I was 10 years old. 10 years old. 1215 1819 20 I went to college, because I thought somebody was going to show me the gateway or the book to success and they didn’t write a man wanted examples. And I would just tell everybody, like 10x is a real thing. The ability to improve your life from wherever you are right now. Maybe you’re successful, boom, it can be improved. Maybe you suffering, it can be improved. Maybe you’re worth $10 million. Trust me, that is not the top of the mountain. Maybe you’re in good shape. There’s still another level. Maybe your marriage is what good it can get 10 times better. So I would just tell people, man surround your, you know, have big targets. Surround yourself with people that support big targets. Okay, big people do not challenge Big Think little people are the ones who say Oh, why can’t you be satisfied? Why can’t you just be happy? Why aren’t you just grateful? When’s enough enough? That’s the little thing. When if you want if you want to if you want a big idea, don’t share it with little people or producers that don’t have enough time.

Anthony Scaramucci 45:46
All right, my producer is gonna really be mad at me now for like outing them. But listen, you would love My next guest next week. His name is Matt Higgins. He’s been a guest star on Shark Tank. He wrote a best selling book called burn the boats. Which is a lot like your philosophy no Plan B but look at this Anthony has great producers see that their file? Fi that that’s a shout at me grant just so you know, he’s gonna do a you they’re, they’re like men. Alright, but in any event, Matt Higgins coming on next week. listeners out there viewers out there. Send us some advice how to make the show better. I want to bring you back on Grant. I didn’t want you to be a regular. There’s so much to talk about with you. Very grateful for your time today. Everybody have a great weekend to speak up with the mood speak up with Anthony Scaramucci. It’s all next week at this time. Live show 12 noon Eastern Standard Time. Please tune in next week.

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