Don Lemon on Elon Musk, The Future of Free Speech and The Media | Speak Up With Anthony Scaramucci

Don Lemon 0:00
There are certain things that that are important to me, those things are not money. As I said, it’s important for me to be able to feed my family, of course, but having principles that’s more important to me, the way you treat people that’s important to me. What you put out into the world to the world is important. I think, at the end of the day, you know, whenever this is over, and I’m looking back going, oh, you know, how did I live? I’m not gonna say, Man, I wish I had saved 100 more dollars, or, you know, 100,000 more dollars or a million more dollars, I’m gonna say, I did what was right, for me and my family and my loved ones, and even for the world for the people I didn’t love so much.

Anthony Scaramucci 0:45
So joining us now on speak up with Anthony Scaramucci, is actually a dear friend who’s made some headlines recently is that the typical Wealthion guest, but I think the story is so important. And last week, he made big news, I, I called him and said, Please come on, we’re not necessarily going to offer financial advice here, as much as we will talk about the world on how the world works. And now when we look at business leaders how to business leaders think

Unknown Speaker 1:15
versus how journalists think. And so with that in mind, Mr. Don Lemon joining the show, welcome to the show, Don. Thank you. Good to see you, Anthony. Always a pleasure. St. and same here. And now when I could use financial advice, by the way, so well, you’re you’re smart with your money, though. I know that, because we’ve talked about it in the past, you’re you’re a prudent guy, and you’re very disciplined, which is everything the hallmark of this show, is to tell people to be disciplined, save a little money, and so forth. But this is really the show that I wanted to talk about today is a little bit about your career, a little about the twists and turns at Twitter. And then if you’re okay with it, we’d like to get into a little bit of a conversation with Elon Musk, who is a self proclaimed free speech absolutist, and we’re gonna talk a little bit about that for a second. But before we get there, I want to point out to people, what I genuinely love about you. Okay, and you were picking on me, that is correct.

Unknown Speaker 2:12
Picking up me when I was the White House communication.

Unknown Speaker 2:16
Now the problem was I wasn’t even aware of it because I was just getting picked on by everybody. Okay, it was a huge onslaught. But like what happens in life when people meet each other,

Unknown Speaker 2:28
and they get to know each other as opposed to the two dimensional isation of each other, and the caricatures friendships can form is that a true statement? It is a true statement. I remember the first time I met you, I think it was in a CNN greenroom. And I just remember it was like, you had on a ring. I don’t know if it was a class ring or whatever. It was just like I liked that ring. And we, we hit it off.

Unknown Speaker 2:50
It was respectful. I don’t I don’t think you were on my show. You may have been on another show before mine, maybe Anderson or something. But this is before Chris was in primetime. This is before

Unknown Speaker 3:00
Trump, and we hit it off. But not we weren’t friends then you went to the White House. And then I would make fun of you. And then you know, I just used you yesterday. Maybe the day before. When I when I wrote something I didn’t editorial on Rhonda McDaniel and I said that was like a half a Scaramucci that she was

Unknown Speaker 3:23
three by the way I sort of

Unknown Speaker 3:25
work yes but we listened we did we met each other and we instantly liked each other and we’ve been friends ever since and I you know I love you I love your family. And it’s you know, it’s feeling’s mutual and your your what I love about you and your book,

Unknown Speaker 3:41
which I read a few years ago you came on for that? Is your realness. Okay? You are out there fully transparent with your life. And I think the happiest people are that by the way. I mean, the more transparent we are, the more comfortable we are in our own skin, the happier we are. And so one of the guys that

Unknown Speaker 4:02
is here at Wealthion on he’s a very close friend of mine 30 years, we watched the interview between you and Elon Musk. And he wrote three words to me. He wrote oil and water

Unknown Speaker 4:16
okay, and and I looked that I watched the entire interview and I thought the interview was interesting because of so many things, but the specific thing was

Unknown Speaker 4:26
there felt like there was tension right away. It didn’t feel like there was a moment where the interview was going. Well, it felt like there was defensive tension on Mr. Musk or, and so if you don’t mind take it if you don’t mind. Take us behind the scene. Take us into the pre interview. The jocularity of getting into the sea getting ready to go live. What were the conversations like with Elon and his team? And did you feel like it was slipping away before it even started? Well, let’s

Unknown Speaker 5:00
And it wasn’t he doesn’t really have a team. He doesn’t have a lot of people around him. I don’t know if you know him, or not the only thing we eat he, he was right on time he came down the stairs, you know, like

Unknown Speaker 5:13
I forget, like, what’s your name and Sunset Boulevard. And you know, he comes down the stairs or the security people or just wants and by the way, it was glorious wants it but I remember her name in the I forget her name in the movie. And I’m an old movie buff. I should. It’s early in the morning, I need to get my coffee. This is early for me. So she came he was on time. I think he was the only thing that they were a little bit concerned about. You know, I’ll just share something with you that it not they still haven’t share with anybody else is that they were a little concerned about just giving information about way about Tesla because they didn’t want to sort of influence stocks or that kind of thing. And that’s understandable. I said, Look, I’m not CNBC. And if there’s something that you can’t answer, just say, I can’t answer that question. Or, you know, I don’t want to talk about that. So that was it. There was I was fine. You know, me, I get along with everyone. You know, I’ve interviewed everybody people I don’t agree with you know, you remember during the whole run up to 2016. I mean, it was we would go at it on set with all kinds of people and interview you also interviewed Donald Trump after the

Unknown Speaker 6:13
incident. Yeah. And we would go out for beers afterwards, you know, and I don’t necessarily have to agree with people politically in order to have a conversation with them or find something relatable. So I was fine. He seemed like he was a little, you know, sort of standoffish, a little cold.

Unknown Speaker 6:27
And so I was like, Okay, fine. We’re not friends. We don’t really know each other. And we sat down, and I think I thought the beginning was good. It was pretty good. He was laughing. I was laughing or what have you.

Unknown Speaker 6:40
The interesting thing to me was, is that it wasn’t I have had very tense interviews before. This wasn’t a gotcha interview. I was just asking him about himself and asking him about things that he put out there. And I think I just sort of, you know, as we got going, just started, I think I was sort of taken aback by like, wow, he’s doesn’t he’s not taking responsibility for anything. Like, nothing really matters to him. I was like, okay, so I just kept asking him questions, and he just became increasingly uncomfortable. But this wasn’t a gotcha interview, I had nothing against Elon Musk. I just had questions about who he was. And I wanted people to get to know about him and me and, and honest, honestly, I thought it was great for people to sit to be able to see to people like us with different worldviews sitting down and having a conversation. And, you know, whatever, at the end of it, whether we go away of it with, you know, at the end, saying, you know, I learned a little bit about him, he learned a little bit about me, this is great for the platform, people would from different worldviews should be on this platform. That’s, that’s it. And but he didn’t, he didn’t see it that way, obviously. Okay, so that that is one of the central questions I have. So he did not see it that way. And I was, you know, I was in Silicon Valley recently, I’ve also met with several people that are inside of the orbit of Elon Musk. One gentleman said to me, Well, you know, you gotta be careful, because I’m in his orbit. He’s gonna make me very, very rich. If I say something that he doesn’t like, and he takes me out of his orbit, I’m going to miss the yacht. And I’m also going to miss the generational wealth for my family. So therefore, if he has no clothes on, I’m going to tell him how beautiful the clothes are. Because this is a generational wealth experience for me, being inside his orbit. Way to react to that. Do you think that happens a lot with people that are in power that they get into a little bit of a vortex? A little bit of an echo chamber? I don’t know what Donald Trump want you to

Unknown Speaker 8:39
you. You worked for Donald Trump. I’m sure there were lots of people around him like that. Well, well, the answer the question, obviously, politically is yes. Yeah. I think we I think we noticed it now. In the corporate setting is these people get power? And so how does Danny power money? Yeah, yes. And the reaction to it has been the same people, you know, Don Lemon missed out on huge opportunity with the richest man and we’re I don’t feel that way. I feel like I am a journalist. I’m not I’m not in journalism. I don’t do this because I want to be rich. Do I? Look, I like to pay my bills, of course. But I’m not doing this because I want to be a millionaire or a billionaire. I do this because this is my work. This is my life’s mission. This is what I want to do. I want to inform people. I am curious about the world. I’m curious about life. I want that. I’m curious about what makes people tick. So the Anthony the reaction has been well, you know, he his contract was torn up, he’s gonna be out of a lot of money. That doesn’t matter to me. You know, I have money, I’m fine. What matters to me is that I’m honest with people that I that I live up to my deal. I live up to the agreements that I make. I had an agreement with him that I was to come on the platform, and I was to be me that I’d have all the support that I would that I could get from the company, and that he wanted a different perspective, a diverse view on the platform.

Unknown Speaker 10:00
And that’s exactly what I was doing. The money is a whole different thing. And so the reaction has been, I’m surprised that people have been have been reacting through economic money, greed, rather than principles, morals, this is what the man was supposed to be doing. He’s doing exactly what he’s supposed to be doing. Now, look, I can sit down with anyone, Anthony, anybody, Tucker Carlson and I don’t agree on a lot, I can sit down with Tucker, Elon Musk, and I don’t agree on a lot, I can sit down with Elon Musk. But I’m not gonna sit down and have some fake conversation like, Oh, hey, you have kids I have, you know, I don’t have to you have dogs, I have dogs, ha ha, there are lots of things that we need to get on on the table, and then off the table, and then we can develop a friendship, then we can develop some sort of camaraderie. But I’m not going to sit there and have a fake conversation, because that’s one not who I am. To. That’s not what you hired me so to speak, even though I didn’t hire me that that’s why that’s not why you want me to be a content partner is to have a fake conversation. So I’m gonna do what we’re supposed to do what is right, morally and ethically, that’s what I did.

Unknown Speaker 11:07
Well, if you read, if you read your book,

Unknown Speaker 11:11
this is the fire. Everything that you’ve done would have been very predictable to anybody that read that book.

Unknown Speaker 11:18
You are in a world that doesn’t think like that. Done. I’m just being very candid with you. My world doesn’t think like that my world on Wall Street is about money, prestige, status, I gotta go into the art world, I gotta buy something unique, I may be worth $20 billion. But I have this unique piece of painting that you don’t have, right? The word exclusion means to exclude. Right? We both know that right? And so people say it’s exclusive. So what does it say about where we are in our society? We have somebody that controls this platform. You know, I’ll probably get D platformed. After this interview, which is something I love, it’s fine. What does it say about this? Is it this? Does this free speech absolutist? Does he have too much power on a platform like that it’s a private platform, so he can sort of do anything that he wants? Platform, I know, You’ve had some time to reflect upon the the interview, and I admire your principles, and it’s one of the reasons why I love you. But what does it say more broadly about our society right now where we are? And what is important to us culturally?

Unknown Speaker 12:25
Well, look, you know, says a lot. I’ve had a, I was actually really surprised by the response it like, as I said, it’s been mostly about money and greed. Greed is bad. I know you weren’t. You’re in a world where greed is good. I don’t think greed is how much do you really need to live. And considering the way I grew up, how I grew up the skin, I’m in being a gay man, I just don’t think about those things I am part of I’ve done very well in America. And we talked about that on Elon Musk and I, during the interview, I’ve done very well, but understand what the world is like for people like me. And so I have to buy there’s certain things that that are important to me, those things are not money. As I said, it’s important for me to be able to feed my family, of course, but having principles that’s more important to me, the way you treat people that’s important to me, what you put out into the world to the world is important. I think at the end of the day, you know, whenever this is over, and I’m looking back going, oh, you know, how did I live? I’m not going to say, Man, I wish I had saved 100 more dollars, or, you know, 100,000 more dollars or a million more dollars. I’m gonna say I did what was right, for me and my family and my loved ones, and even for the world for the people I didn’t love so much. So where are we now? I think we need we’re at a point. Excuse me. We’re at a point where I think we need to start reassessing what’s right, and reassessing. You know, how we feel about things. It’s great to make money, people would love to make as much money as you can. But if you’re going to do that, to the detriment of the world, and society yourself, you know, where you can’t sleep at night, because you’re constantly trying to make money in your, you know, selling people out and doing dirty doing and other people dirty. It’s not worth it. I, you know, I slept really, really well. Last night, you can probably still hear to my voice. I woke up an hour ago, and I’m still sleepy. But I just don’t worry about those things. And I think that people we need to reassess our values in this country, especially politically as well. And you know what I’m talking about. I know this, I know what you’re talking about. I take a lot of flack for it. Because, you know, my, my oldest son who I think you’ve met him, he’s a Stanford Business School grad. He says, Dad, you’ve killed my networking opportunities. The Republicans hate you because you left Trump. The Democrats hate you because

Unknown Speaker 14:53
you were with Trump, and you just destroyed my networking opportunities. I’m like, alright, well, I thought you were a hero among Democrats. So right now

Unknown Speaker 15:00
I mean,

Unknown Speaker 15:02
like Democrat heroes now I’ve never really accepted into their reindeer games and that’s okay because I’m not really a Democrat. I’m like a moderate Republican but but but I think that we view each other through these short clips done. We we get something on the internet, we now have deep fakes, we can chop people up, we can make Joe Biden look 100 years older than he is we can make them look like a worst stutter we can. You’re doing all of these different things

Unknown Speaker 15:31
that turn each other into caricatures. Yes. And so, Elon Musk is also victimized by that. So you spent an hour with him, or more. Let’s not talk about the caricature of Elon Musk. Let’s talk about Elon Musk first, again. So if you had to write a three paragraph description of Elon Musk, let’s say that you worked for the agency and I said, Okay, you met the guy give me a personality profile. What is that?

Unknown Speaker 16:02
It’s complicated.

Unknown Speaker 16:04
Emotionally, quite frankly, immature, very vulnerable. And

Unknown Speaker 16:11
I actually don’t think he really thinks about

Unknown Speaker 16:18
his personal

Unknown Speaker 16:21
contribution to the world as much as he should.

Unknown Speaker 16:26
I think he

Unknown Speaker 16:30
I think that he should probably spend less time because he’s very, very accomplished less time on rockets and his business affairs and spend more time on his personal growth. He’s very successful, business wise, is successful in his career, but I don’t think he has a successful personal life and you can see his vulnerability. When you talk about characters or caricatures. You I could feel his vulnerability and I could feel it when he was answering questions, because, again, the questions were not that hard. If Anthony Scaramucci asks Don Lemon, Don, why’d you tweet this? Then I would just say, hey, you know, let me read it. Oh, it says it. And then you said, Well, your facts are wrong. Oh, wow, I got that wrong. I’m sorry, I apologize. It’s wrong. You know, I should do better, I’ll do better. He doesn’t have that. He’s not used to people telling him,

Unknown Speaker 17:24
you know, facts. He’s not used to people ask, asking questions. He’s not used to answering questions from people. That was my assessment. So I thought he was and I don’t mean that in a terrible I don’t mean to I’m not disparaging him.

Unknown Speaker 17:38
You know, I have vulnerabilities, there are ways that I can grow emotionally, my EQ isn’t as high as it could be. I think I have a pretty high EQ, but it could be better.

Unknown Speaker 17:47
I just think if he spent more time on that, then he would not have been uncomfortable with the questions, he would just answer them and move on. I was asked by a investor, Twitter now known as a very large investor, what I thought of the whole thing, and I said to the person, well, this i no doubt long time. I don’t know what Elon was. But I think he made a mistake. Because

Unknown Speaker 18:10
making a decision like that, that abruptly is an exertion of power. And it shows that somebody can be moved emotionally in the moment to make decisions like that. And what we find is that when you have power like that, you have to have checks and balances around you whether it’s the constitutional

Unknown Speaker 18:30
authority of the government, or it’s a corporate authority, too powerful, you end up making impetuous decisions. And he’s really trying to create a free speech environment on Twitter that he’s got to let people like you ask the questions that you were asking. And by the way, I thought your questions were

Unknown Speaker 18:52
predictable, not that they were bad questions, but they were predictable in the sense that you were really trying to get to who he was, there were good journalistic questions. You were digging, you know, it wasn’t like you were out of left field and asking things that were not inside, the bellwether of someone like him should be expected to answer so. Right. So um, but I want you to, if you don’t mind, because we get you know, what I do is I send out to viewers.

Unknown Speaker 19:19
Alright, I’ve got somebody coming on Don Lemon, what are the questions blah, blah. And, and one of the questions people ask if people understand, you’ve said, said on the view and other places, including here, just now that you weren’t hired by Elon Musk, and so I think people don’t understand the deal if you were so what do you mean by the fact that you weren’t hired by Elon Musk? And so if you’re willing to talk about what was the deal, you were going to do what exactly so the deal was, is it lead on Musk tweeted out last summer after I left CNN, it would be great for you Don Lemon to join the platform a couple of times, and then Tucker joined and he said this is what Don Lemon and others on

Unknown Speaker 20:00
The left and he said that was one of my first questions. Why do you think I was on the left?

Unknown Speaker 20:04
That’s what you should, that’s what we should be doing or, you know, on the platform. And so I said no to everybody, because I took the summer off. I think I talked to you a little bit about this, I didn’t know what I was going to do. I said, I don’t want to just jump back on TV or jump back into something that’s ego, right? I gotta have to be on TV, like, my ego is not that big. So I just sort of weighed it, and, you know, sort of just did a whole reassessment of my life. And coming out of the summer, in the fall, I said, Okay, well, I’m gonna start maybe considering some options. And Lindy ocarina came around to Twitter. And, you know, she’s very respected the business had worked for NBC and worked at Turner Broadcasting, which was part of CNN. So a lot of people I knew really respected her. And so we started, they started talking to me and courting me. And then I said, look, the only way that I kept saying no, the only way that I’m going to join the platform, which was to be a distribution partner, and a content partner, I didn’t work for them, they had no editorial, they would have no editorial control over my show. And then I would get to do on the platform exactly what Don Lemon does, and that’s questioned people truth to power, center, right or center left, whoever you want to see me, right. I’m not a Democrat or Republican, not a registered, not registered with a political party.

Unknown Speaker 21:18
And I said, that’s the only way I’m going to do it. And there are times, Linda, and also other members of our team, that I’m going to have to criticize the person who owns this platform. And they said, Absolutely, he would love that. He would love the criticism. I’m sure he would be great. You guys would go back and forth. So what you know, let’s do it. So negotiations are going about Elon was involved with the negotiations everyone. Great, Don, we want you to come on the platform. Here’s the deal. CES is happening. We want you to come out to CES, Linda wants to do this announcement, it’s going to be a big splash. If you don’t come out to CES, the deal is off. Like okay, fine. So I couldn’t get there. Because they asked me like in the afternoon on a Thursday, I forget what it was or I forget what what day of the week it was, I could not get there. So I couldn’t make it there that night. Because there were there were no flights available. And they were looking around for maybe we can get you there on a private plane or whatever. And that didn’t happen. So I came out the next morning, I think on like,

Unknown Speaker 22:21
flew like on JetBlue or something or delta. I think it was JetBlue.

Unknown Speaker 22:26
We want your fiancee to come out. We’re going to take care of you. We’ll give you a suite and do us a favor. You get a massage because you’re you’ve been such a team player. We’re like, okay, great. You’re very kind of you. Dry January. They’re like, can we buy you some champagne, we’re not drinking. It’s dry January. So Tim and I flew out. We got there we go to dinner, everything is great that we won’t have a big party for you. You’re announced all the content partners me Tulsi Gabbard and Jim Rome at the time, all content partners, and they were very happy about the deal.

Unknown Speaker 22:57
I went to Twitter headquarters to meet with the staff to figure out what they want to do with me what kind of things I liked what you know, what they could do for me on the platform, yatta yatta, I did an upfront with advertisers and you know, all kinds of things. So I was living up to my part of the deal. We have all your support. Don, we can’t wait for you to start. I wanted to start my show a week or two earlier. Then we launched. Linda said Linda and Brett who was Brett whites, who is

Unknown Speaker 23:28
a head of talents asked me to move back a week or two, because they didn’t have a sponsor. And they thought that they would it would be embarrassing not to have a sponsor, when my first guest was Elon Musk. And so they said give us some time to get a sponsor. And because we want this done right and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I even moved my the launch of my show back a week or two for them. So I was a total team player. And, you know, Elon was agreed to do the interview and it was all great. That was it. Elon Musk was not my boss, no editorial control.

Unknown Speaker 24:00
Team Player. That’s it. That was a deal.

Unknown Speaker 24:05
That’s it, it happened he scare emoji. And then you know, the interview happened and he didn’t like what the interview and so you know, that’s it? Well, I mean, I mean, I,

Unknown Speaker 24:19
I get it, and I understand what happened. Um, you wanted to know exactly what it was. Let me Sorry, I didn’t really answer your question. The deal was that I was going to have a show regardless of x, I had a show the Don Lemon show and x had nothing to do with it. When by the time they approached me the deal came about they just wanted to be a content partner, a distribution partner in a show that was already going forward. Right. So by moving my show, the launch date back I was doing them a favor because they wanted to be on board. So what it was it was three three Shows a week, three days a week for show.

Unknown Speaker 24:59
half hours.

Unknown Speaker 25:00
go three days a week. And what they wanted was some exclusive content on top of the three shows, right? Maybe 10 minutes of exclusive content for 24 hours, it was exclusive to x, and then it would go everywhere else. So it was never anything that was exclusive. It wasn’t an X show, it was a Don Lemon show with x as a distribution partner, I want to just I want to play Linda for a second, who’s obviously a very bright television executive, you’re good for their brand. Because they they decided to open the brand back up to this right wing lunacy. And under the notion of free speech, absolutism, it’s turned off a lot of corporate advertising. You know, Elon is upset about that, which is why He gave the big G F Y moment at deal book. And, and now you’re not on there. But if you were on there, it would help her in terms of expressing that there’s balance

Unknown Speaker 26:01
on the platform result, which perhaps you could help bring in more advertisers. So I guess his behavior heard him didn’t it from a business perspective. And we’re, you know, we’re talking about principles in journalism, from actual dollars perspective, the ejection quickly, Don Lemon probably reinforces some of the things people think about him. Well, I think, look, I’ve been listening to Bloomberg, and also the Wall Street Journal had been reading, and that’s their assessment, and they are more business publications. So that’s their assessment. They they call I’m not qualifying myself this way. But they are, they are saying, download was the biggest name for the you know, this whole Twitter, new Twitter,

Unknown Speaker 26:42
video platform. And it was a missed opportunity for Elon Musk. That’s what they’re saying. I do think it was a missed opportunity. Here’s the thing, Anthony, you cannot say that I want to hear from other side, I want to hear the other side, I want to hear what Don Lemon has to say, I want to hear that perspective. And then once you hear that perspective, say, No, this is not what I want. That means that you don’t want it. And that means that you’re in an echo chamber, you’re used to people feeding you the line. And when you don’t hear that line anymore. It is it is so it is anathema to everything that you think or know or have been told that you recoil from it, you cannot do that. If I’m not calling you names, as you say, you know, as he said, The only thing that we take off the platform is if it’s illegal, nothing I did was illegal. But he didn’t want me at least as a business deal still on the platform. So obviously, it was just a matter of I don’t want to hear what you’re saying. I don’t want to be questioned my authority question. Therefore, I’m taking my toys and my marbles and I’m going home. It’s just that simple. I mean, I don’t how else can you look at it? If I say Anthony Scaramucci, I want you to go into business with me. I want to hear your side, you’re gonna have my full support. And then all of a sudden, you say, Well, I just don’t like what you said. So I’m taking it’s just it doesn’t make sense. You know what I mean? So but but I mean, it’s an obvious question, you know, Tesla had its worst quarter in the fourth quarter.

Unknown Speaker 28:11
Is that behavior hurting him? Is it ever hurting a stock? The behavior? Look, I don’t think his performance. Look for me. I don’t know about the business part. I think Tesla is a is a, you know, a good car, right? I mean, they drive themselves, you know, people, you know, this genius. I’m not saying he is and I have a lot of respect for him. I don’t know about genius. And if people throw that word around, I think he’s smart when it comes to acquiring companies that are already in motion to do something big. And that is a talent within itself. But as far as developing technology, I don’t think that that is

Unknown Speaker 28:51
what I’m saying? I do. But let me rephrase it. I’ll qualify him as an entrepreneurial genius, because there are three or four things that happened to him, that he stayed on it, he has very admirable qualities of not giving up. By the way, that’s the great irony. I bet if I had the two of you out to dinner one night, the two have way more in common than he, you know, that you probably would see superficially, you know, you’re doggedly determined. Your career is an improbable career, reading your book. You hung in there when other people could have departed.

Unknown Speaker 29:26
And you you’ve made a big name for yourself and the Don Lemon show is gonna go on and that great success with or without X on frankly, I would have liked to have seen you on there because I think it would provide more, more balanced. But let me let me ask you the direct to consumer media question. I think it’s on everybody’s mind, especially my audience.

Unknown Speaker 29:48
That’s really the future is on am I right?

Unknown Speaker 29:51
I’m watching the ratings go down on all these appointment, televised shows.

Unknown Speaker 29:57
So where are we five years from now? Where is Don live?

Unknown Speaker 30:00
Then, where is the media? Where is the dissemination. And by the way, this show as an example, the ratings are ridiculously high on SpeakUp. And I look at, you know, shows sampling from CNBC and things like that. We frankly have higher ratings, we have more eyeballs, because we’re able to do longer format, and people can plug and play and do it anytime they want. So where are we five years from now? In this?

Unknown Speaker 30:27
Look, I think that I don’t think that, you know, there’s going to be the Intellivision will never go away. I mean, look, what you and I are doing right now is television. It’s just it’s just right, the mechanism through which we we are producing the television, it’s just different. And the mechanism mechanism through which people are consuming, it is different. But basically, it’s the same thing. So I don’t see linear television going away. I think it’s going to shrink. I think the you know, they’re gonna be very few people with huge contracts, right? Who are, you know, TV stars, so to speak. I think that, obviously, live sports always going to be there. When for traditional television, I think live news events, it’s always going to be there but probably not as big an audience because people now can stream it. Right? If you look at some of the big ballgames a big sporting events are now streaming and they get some of the highest numbers. I think that we are going to move into streaming, I think it’s going to get even more crowded, and the competence is going to be more competition. But I think streaming is basically going to come what broadcast was, so people will be getting your content through this, what we’re doing now, the odd, the weird thing is, is that and I think it’s you know, it should be a little bit concerning to people is that people can narrowcast even more so they get to pick and choose exactly what content they want to see and hear. So this could eventually push us into even, you know,

Unknown Speaker 31:57
more

Unknown Speaker 32:01
chambers where we just sort of listen to ourselves, right echo chambers of people where people are just sort of listening to whatever confirms or reaffirms their own beliefs. So, but I do think that this is the future, I think linear is is dying, not dead yet, it’s going to have a tail. But eventually, it’ll be over kind, if that makes sense.

Unknown Speaker 32:23
It’s like radio, it’s like radio and television, radio never went away. But it doesn’t have the flute influence that television, the influence that it once had once television took over. So I think I think television won’t have the influence it once had when streaming takes over. It’s interesting, but it still has an influence. So let’s go to some audience questions. Marketing, keep you too much longer, but we’re not going to fight.

Unknown Speaker 32:48
We want to fight with me. We want to fight about I mean,

Unknown Speaker 32:52
we’ve already gone through that. It’s so weird. Like, that’s what that was a whole weird thing about Elon. It’s like Elon Relax, man. Like it’s not like just you know, hey, I’m not as I kept saying to him, I’m not trying to make you uncomfortable. Just answer some questions, and then we’ll just move on. Watch the end. So you’re good journal. I watched you do that. And it was going downhill. even try to pull it back from going downhill. It was like a go kart it was like out of control. Right? So so like, what do you do in situation where the Go Karts about to go out of control? It’s going to crash into the tree, and crash. If you’re a journalist, like Anthony, if I say to you, Anthony, look, you made this decision, whatever it is your business. And I say but and you say it’s somebody else’s fault? And I say, Anthony, how was it somebody else’s fault? Aren’t you the head of the company? Doesn’t the buck stop with you? And you say no, I’m like, what? Wait, what? So I, you know, I think it’s all in your in the response for the other person? If you say no, then I think that’s odd. And most people will say, well, it’s your company, or don’t ever say it’s your career, the buck stops with you. So

Unknown Speaker 34:01
I think that’s really where it went off the rails where he wouldn’t take responsibility for his own actions. And so I just had to let the go cart go off the road. I just really believe this. And maybe I’m wrong. I just feel that like, he’s got smart people around them, but they’re probably afraid of them. A really smart person would have said to him, Hey, man, you pissed off about the Don Lemon interview? Okay, he’s on the left, you probably send a right? Who cares, put them on the platform, it’s good for both of you. It’ll be good for the show. It’ll be good for everything. Why do you care? Why are you getting upset? And the answer is, well, you know, my ego was here now. Maybe it started here, but it’s here now. And what he said to me, I didn’t like and so let me show you how powerful I am just going to abruptly knock them off the network. And that, you know, I mean, it’s just not the right behavior. And so like, the question is, how does somebody like Linda, worries people at SpaceX or these other people, how do they talk to them now? And can they reach them? Maybe they can’t read

Unknown Speaker 35:00
should be more. And this really speaks to, you know, behavior in our society. Like I just turned 60. So you’re a young pup, okay? We just remember based on age, we’ll just leave it at that age don’t age. And based on age, good based on age, we’re not that far off Anthony, just a year or two behind you. You look great. Okay, so I’m just letting you know, what did I learn? What did I learn? I learned that money corrupts people, I learned that money. There’s a paradox to wealth done, it makes you lonely. Okay? If I have my own plane, I’m not flying Delta. I’m by myself. If I have my own yacht, I’m by myself. I’m on a 20 acre estate. I’m sitting there by myself. There’s a paradox to the wealth, and then it creates some level of insult insularity, and how would you like but also, within that you are because you don’t want to be lonely. You’re bringing people in to that circle? Who are going to kiss your butt in order to stay in that circle on the private jet and on the on the on the yacht and whatever. And so they’re always going to be like, Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. And you never hear anyone say, hey, you know what, you screwed up, or this isn’t right. Or you need to think about this. You never ever hear that. And you know, what, just a little example, for me when I was at CNN, you know, I had the part of my contract was a car. So which would take me to and from work, I spent more time sitting in traffic in the back of a black car by myself. And now you know, I can afford a car or whatever. You know what, no big deal. But now I’m on the subway. And people are like, Hey, Don Lemon. I saw your Elan interview, can I get a picture? You know, I agree with you on this. But I didn’t agree with you on that. And maybe you guys should try to talk and I love it. I’m like, Yeah, you know, you’re right. And they’re like, I don’t see why he got so upset. I thought it was great. Even though I thought that this question was hard. Or, you know, Tim and I are on the subway, or, you know, we’re walking in the street and people Hey, famous couple, how are you? We stop and talk, hey, this is my dog. This is your dog. And you get to actually know people because you’re not in that bubble. That’s a small example. But I feel like that’s probably where Ilan is and where most rich people listen, it’s important. I live in a neighborhood for that reason I want my, I want my kids to,

Unknown Speaker 37:16
you know,

Unknown Speaker 37:17
I want them to be going to be in a neighborhood here. I mean, I want to be able to go in and out of the house have their friends around, as opposed to live on some ridiculous state somewhere. But alright, let’s go to some audience questions if you don’t mind. Okay. Barbara Fiddy to saying that when you and I should get a rocket to do a podcast in outer space, that would probably cost us a lot of money. Actually.

Unknown Speaker 37:38
I would like to do that. Actually, my wife would kill me. I’ve been reading a lot about deep sea mining beers are heavily invested in emerging industry rates like the gold rush my thoughts. Okay, so this is from Jeff from Cincinnati. I have no idea about that.

Unknown Speaker 37:52
We’ll move on to the next one. So I’m I’m leery of the deep sea mining. And the reason I’m leery of the deep sea mining has to do with the

Unknown Speaker 38:02
the costs associated with it and the insurance costs. And so I would be careful, Jeff, let’s go to the next one.

Unknown Speaker 38:10
Do you think Tiktok will ever sell if this legislation passes? Oh, that’s a good one. So go ahead. Don, what do you think? Well, I guess who I had on? I guess it was on the current show that just released last night, Kevin O’Leary. Kevin O’Leary is on the show. And you know, Kevin O’Leary is has put in an offer or what he believes is he wants to buy Tiktok Yeah, so we’ll have to see if he does it, but I think it would be great if it sells I don’t know if it’s going to sell. I think it’d be great if someone like Kevin O’Leary buys it. And it takes that Chinese algorithm out and it puts in one for the United States and one that doesn’t necessarily excuse me steal our secrets, and at least if it does steal our secrets is not in some foreign hands. But I think it would be great at tick tock Witsel, especially to an American. So So Kevin and I are close. We just did a balk at verbal boxing match at the fan club in Miami. We had our boxing gloves on and we were debating each other on different things. And the final rose, did you guys do a speaking engagement?

Unknown Speaker 39:11
Fran arose we’ll have to get him on speaking of he’s

Unknown Speaker 39:14
right. With Pablo. Yeah, Pablo was rough for us. And it was a lot of fun. A lot of us several 100 people in the room. Alright, let’s go to the next one.

Unknown Speaker 39:26
How can we invest in the AI boom data centers video? What do you think the worst way to get into the action correlate from Texas so in the video, for me, is the best way to get into the action. And this is the biggest mistake I made in my life. And I think it’s important to tell everybody by the quality you don’t have to be smarter than the average bear. If Apple is making the best phone or Samsung is making the best phone or they’re tied by and both in Amazon you’re getting a box at your house every single day. It’s okay to own Amazon you don’t have to find next time is on

Unknown Speaker 40:00
by Amazon, Starbucks, whatever it is, and that’s that was that is a genius if there is, you know, we’re talking about genius for Elon Musk is that he buys things that are in, you know, in motion that are good. And he takes it to the next level. So that is indeed

Unknown Speaker 40:16
for what he did with Tesla. He, he saw something, you know, again, I’ll further embarrass myself. I have a good friend that’s on the lines boards. He asked me 15 years ago, listen, and maybe 20 years ago, he said, I made some money with this guy named Elon Musk and Peter Thiel paper out. Elon is starting space exploration company. And he’s also bought a Evie, Electric Vehicle Company. He’s going to do both of those things at the same time. And I’m rolling my money into that. Would you like to put some money in? I said, No. Who’s the dummy on me? So my friend went on to become a billionaire. And so I mean, that’s how life is but to me go with an Nvidia. Buy it, hold it, hold it through the next cycle, even if it goes down. 20% buy it and put it away. Let’s go to the next question.

Unknown Speaker 41:08
What’s your take on sandbank been freed? And what can we do to protect our crypto investments? So? So Steve from LA, I’m going to ask Don asked him as well as he’s good journalists, but I would say on your crypto investments, you can put them in your cold wallet, or you can store them in places like Fidelity or you can bump any Ibet. ETF? BlackRock, I think those things are all very safe. And you can stay out of the fray of trading. I would just be a long term stuff. What’s your take on the embankment freeze about set in stone? I think the courts are going to decide that I think Sam, obviously he’s in a world of trouble. And I think the courts are about to decide, but if I’m just looking at it sort of a cursory you know, 30,000 Look 30,000 view.

Unknown Speaker 41:55
Look, I think he did some things that were unethical, allegedly, that looks like it’s pretty unethical. And I think he’s going to pay the price for it. That’s all I’ll say. So but let’s let’s wait till the verdict north of 30, north of 30 years, 30 years?

Unknown Speaker 42:14
Well, I think it’s going to be south of 30 years, because it’s money. I mean, it does hurt people. It is investments. But did he you know, is it like murder? No, I think it’s going to be south of 30 years. But look, I could be wrong. What do you think? North of 30 years, this show is of course going to come out after the verdict. So we’ll have to see if we’re, how long it’s gonna be like a made off. He’s gonna get a lot. I think he gets the made off treatment because he’s so young. But the problem is he they had him dead to rights. They offered him a plea deal. He passed on plea deal. He made the government go through a process of the trial. He perjured himself at trial, which has Judge Kaplan very upset. These are contributing factors, but we’ll see And listen, I he hurt me done. You know, he hurt my reputation. I was in business with him. I believed in him I like

Unknown Speaker 43:09
so I don’t want to make it personal. But it was something that, you know, hurt skybridge Having said all that he’s a young man. And so we’re coming up on Easter. I’m not wishing him poorly. But I do think the 30 Would you bounce back, Anthony. That’s what I do have to say about your very classy guy. And look, you’re you’re a survivor. And that’s what I won. Two of the things that I really respect about you you’re

Unknown Speaker 43:37
you are to I didn’t know lemons could bounce. I guess they bounced in the supermarket. You know what I mean? But I didn’t know. You Natalie gonna bounce back. You’re gonna have an amazing, next five years. That’s my prediction. So I wanted to get you on the show. I want people to see the full Don Lemon. Alright, one more quick. If you choose a Don Lemon over an Andy Cohen, New Year’s Eve party. If you could choose a Don Lemon or an Andy Cohen, New Year’s party, which would you choose? I can day from the control room.

Unknown Speaker 44:07
What are you going to do?

Unknown Speaker 44:09
I’m going to I’m going to do a Don Lemon party. I need to

Unknown Speaker 44:14
tell you something Mike and Dave, eat your heart out. There are Moochie has been to more than one Don Lemon party. Fantastic.

Unknown Speaker 44:22
What happens at a dominant party stays at a dominant party mood. But let me Can I Can I just let them in on a secret. One of the Don Lemon parties that you went to more than once you’ve gone a couple of times was I give a gay pride party in the Hamptons every year and Anthony and his wife come and they have the best time ever don’t have a great time. Oh, it’s the best but you know

Unknown Speaker 44:49
what I love about you and why I know the best years ahead are for you. Is that you? Are you

Unknown Speaker 44:57
in a world where a lot of people have a hard time

Unknown Speaker 45:00
mean themselves. You are you. I have a nephew who is gay. And I can’t tell you how proud I am that he came out at age 17 as opposed to waiting or living a closeted life, and I looked at people like you as role models for people like him. So I’m very proud to go to those parties. And I’m very proud to call you a friend. And as I said, your best years are ahead. And I just want to thank you for joining us here on speak up. And I’m looking forward to many episodes of this show. Where do we find the Don Lemon show? I know, we’re on everywhere. You can find it on YouTube, which I would say go like and subscribe to our channel on YouTube, the Don Lemon show. You can find it on ax. You can also find it on I Heart Radio. You can find it on

Unknown Speaker 45:51
Spotify, and you can find on Apple podcasts anywhere you get your streaming content or podcasts you can find the download and show so go sign up like and subscribe it’ll you’ll get notices when it drops. And it’s fun you know at the beginning, Anthony when you’re starting something from the ground up, it’s fun and terrifying all at the same time. So

Unknown Speaker 46:13
my whole life Well, I wish nothing but great success. Thank you so much for joining. Speak up and you’re gonna you’re stuck with me lemon. You can’t get rid of me. Okay, I’ll see you in the amphis I’ll see you sir. Be well, thanks so much.