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What are Central Bank Digital Currencies (CBDCs) and what impact will they have on our finances? Central Bank Digital Currencies (CBDCs) promise efficiency but carry some potential hidden dangers. In this episode of Wealthion, Andrew Brill is joined by Brett Rentmeester of Windrock Wealth Management to discuss the future of money, revealing how CBDCs could reshape our financial freedoms and the tug-of-war between CBDCs and cryptocurrencies. Are we heading towards a financial dystopia, or is there a silver lining in decentralized finance? Brett’s insights might change the way you think about the future of currency.

Brett Rentmeester  0:00  
It's a mistake to think of CBDCs as crypto because they're almost the polar opposite. So on one hand CBDCs have control. They've got monitoring, you know, centralized power, controlling everything, right? The premise of cryptocurrencies, by and large is decentralized. We don't need a middleman, we don't need a government sitting in the middle anymore. We've got a self executing program maintained by a user community. And that's a real risk to power structures. Because historically, last couple 100 years, we always needed this middleman to develop trust between transacting parties. Cryptocurrencies changes that.

Andrew Brill  0:40  
Hello, and welcome to wealthion. I'm your host, Andrew brill, what would you do if you had the ability to pick the ending to a story? We'll explore that coming up right now.

We now welcome in Brett Rentmeester from Winrock wealth management. Brett is one of our partner registered investment advisors. So when you ask for help keeping and growing your wealth, Brett is one of the people at Winrock that will be reaching out. Brett, welcome back to wealthion.

Brett Rentmeester  1:08  
Great to be with you, Andrew.

Andrew Brill  1:10  
Now you have a new article out Choose Your Own Adventure Central Bank Digital Currencies Versus Crypto. And I think choose your own adventures was a book way back when I guess when I was a kid, I had never heard of it. I was more of a Hardy Boys kind of person. You know, I had them all lined up on the bookshelf, my brother and I used to read them. But this is an adventure book where you can kind of pick your own path and ending. 

Brett Rentmeester  1:33  
That's right. In fact, you know, I dug some old ones out of the basement from when I was a kid. And that's exactly right. The Hardy Boys were an adventure that you were in that took you on one path, right you followed the book. What made these unique is you got to certain junctures in the book, and it would say, Hey, if you want to do this, go to this page, if you want to do that go to another page. So it forced you to kind of become this active participant in the story. And for whatever reason, as we've been contemplating Central Bank, digital currencies, or CBDCs, for short, for a long time, it seems like they're now in the public light. And it feels like we're part of this real life story. And we've got to pick some pretty important asset.

Andrew Brill  2:13  
So obviously, it's not we are in this situation, it's not as fictional as we might think, even though this piece is a little fictional, what made you write something like this?

Brett Rentmeester  2:26  
Yeah, I think, you know, a couple of reasons. One is, we have been following this topic for quite some time, because we've believed that this kind of House of Cards of printed money and fiat currencies around the world would be the central issue at some point of what investors need to worry about. And as recently as maybe even six months ago, I'd say the discussion of CBDCs was very fringe thinking and people might even accuse you of being a conspiracy theorist or something. But it's really come into the limelight. And so all of a sudden, you had last week, House of Representatives voted that the Federal Reserve could not create a cbdc without approval of Congress, and you've had people from Ron DeSantis, to others, trying to put things in place to forbid them. So all of a sudden, people are waking up and asking the question, well, what are these things so part of the rationale was to create something that gives a little framework in education of what they are so that, you know, so called informed consent in the financial markets, people know what's going on. And like the Choose Your Own Adventure books, whether we like it or not, we're all participants in this story. So the path we collectively choose is the one that's going to dominate. So I think it's an important juncture in the world, and hence, hence the article. 

Andrew Brill  3:42  
So central bank digital currencies. Now, look, we all walk around with a little bit of cash in our pocket, and that's what we consider currency. But like you said, In the article, when the country needs more money, they don't print it, they actually make jet ledger entries and make, you know, here's the money. So explain to us exactly what a central bank digital currency would be.

Brett Rentmeester  4:03  
Yeah, it's a great question. And this is, this is a key to this informed consent concept here, which is what it's being billed as, let's start with that is, oh, this digital money, you know, kind of similar to cryptocurrencies that are people are getting used to it'll be easy to transact and, and cheap, great, let's all use it, they'll be on your mobile phone. Okay. However, we already have, as you pointed out digital money, you know, most of the money out there is not $100 bills, changing hands, it's digits on a ledger at a bank going from one account to another. So it's a little misleading, in my opinion, to just say it's an improvement in digital money. It's not really what I would say is CBDCs are equal to programmable money, something that's a little more sinister, you know, they're handed out but they have technology that allows a lot of controls to be put on them. And if I could just share one quote, This was from number of years ago, I believe. 2020 money. So some time ago, central banks were working on this, you had Augustine Karstens, who was the Director General of the Bank of International Settlements, which is commonly thought of the Central bank of Central banks. Basically say this about Central Bank digital currencies, the quote was, central banks will have absolute control on the rules and regulations that will determine the use of that expression of central bank liability is referring to CBDCs. And also we will have the technology to enforce that. So, when I hear that two things jump out, absolute control and technology to enforce, well, listen, CBDCs aren't inherently bad, but they do give complete trackability transparency, which can be good. But in the wrong hands, the idea of complete transparency plus control can be a problem. So the real question for people is, you know, do you trust the current slate of bankers and politicians today? And if you do wholeheartedly, then maybe it's not a bad thing. Otherwise, I think there's some reason for real caution.

Andrew Brill  6:02  
It seems to me, we live in a world where, you know, we make mistakes, where there's lawsuits, or you owe the government some money. If we go to a digital currency, it's going to make it a lot easier for the banks to just lock you up. Without a trial, almost they can put, it seems if it's a central bank, digital currency, they kind of put a padlock on your account and say, Okay, you can't spend any more money until we figure this out. It doesn't happen that way right now, because they can't, unless you've gone through a process and you've ignored them long enough. They can't really put a lien on your bank accounts. But this would make it a lot easier for them to make mistakes, even, and, in essence, lock people out of their money by mistake.

Brett Rentmeester  6:49  
Yeah, absolutely. And listen, we've seen some more recent real life cases where they are trying to lock people out of their money it happened with in Canada a bit with the truckers, protests, and certain people that funded that even people that might have made the $20 contribution, you know, trying to lock people out of accounts, you know, we think of China maybe as the front edge of this, where it's not just your money, it's some kind of social credit score working against you. So you know, all these things kind of come together into a dangerous mix, where technology is now caught up to a point where these things are possible. Sounds very dystopian and 1984ish. But the reality is, the tools are there to make a reality like that possible if we let it. 

Andrew Brill  7:32  
Why would central banks explore this? Instead of, which is, it's transparent, it's transparent to a point, instead of exploring a crypto type currency where it's deregulated, it's person to person. Look, if I want to buy something from you, we transact it goes in a blockchain and of story. There's a record of it, you can go back but we're in there's, it just seems like why a little bit more complicated. But why would central banks be exploring this instead of something like crypto?

Brett Rentmeester  8:07  
Yeah, I'm glad you brought it up. Because the first point would be, it's a mistake to think of CBDCs as crypto because they're almost the polar opposite. So on one hand, CBDCs have control. They've got monitoring, you know, centralized power, controlling everything, right. The premise of cryptocurrencies, by and large, is decentralized, we don't need a middleman, we don't need a government sitting in the middle anymore. We've got a self executing program maintained by a user community. And that's a real risk to power structures. Because historically, last couple of 100 years, we always needed this middleman to develop trust between transacting parties. cryptocurrencies changes that because the technology itself doesn't require a trust between you and I know that if I send crypto, you're going to receive it in there's just a, an element of it that doesn't require a bank in the middle. So I think it's a it's a power grab, in the sense that I think all of these governments globally and 98% of the central banks are working on a cbdc. So that's not you know, again, it's not a fringe idea. You know, they all have a similar backdrop, which is they're slowly losing control a little bit of this cryptocurrency phenomena. But also, I think, behind the scenes, they know that the fiat system is in trouble. And this debt based economy we've built can only go so far. So just in the US alone, I was just looking at US debt clock that org. Of course, we all know, we have about $35 trillion of official debt. But there's all these unofficial things that just don't get added to that unfunded pensions and liabilities, etc. And that by that cites measure is greater than 200 trillion. So I think at some point, they know hey, this thing is gonna go out of control, and we need some solution out of the ashes, and this is going to be their mechanism. 

Andrew Brill  9:56  
So cryptocurrency is someone volatile, you know, we've had several 20% drops over the last year or so I would imagine that CBDCs will be a little bit more regulated. And that won't be happen, that won't happen. And it'll be a little more stable than cryptocurrencies. How do you address something like that? 

Brett Rentmeester  10:20  
Yeah, I think, first of all, I mean, we're talking generically about cryptocurrencies. I think if we kind of hone in on store of value, what people are using for more of a store of value concept? We've got Bitcoin, with a different premise, it's going to be volatile, but there's a fixed amount, whereas governments CBDCs you know, the sky's the limit is just like we're at today. I mean, how much money can can a government print? I mean, it's, it's, we've gotten into 10s of trillions. There's another segment within decentralized cryptocurrencies that aren't, it may be as decentralized as Bitcoin but are referred to as stable coins, where their premise is to be more of a stable exchange rate, so to speak. So, you know, this is still an experiment phase. I mean, we're still in the early days of this phenomena, but I think it's maybe the first time you know, in in a long time where the concept of what money is, and how we transact is at least being challenged with the idea of cryptocurrencies, yes, there were periods where, you know, the English had the reserve currency, and it moved on to the Americans, and before that, it was the Portuguese, etc, etc. And those were 100 year, roughly periods. But this time, we're talking about something fundamentally different. It's saying, well, maybe we don't need the money that the state issues, maybe a peer to peer thing people can handle that. 

Andrew Brill  11:41  
We could be walking around with CBDCs on our phones. Is there a security risks that I know that with cryptocurrency, there's, it's you they say it's 100%? Secure? There's never been a hack or anything like that, right? What are the risks with CBDCs? And that sort of thing, you would think that if the governments are going to go this way, they're going to ensure that look, this is safe? This is they're going to tell you at least, that this is safe, and this isn't going to be a problem? 

Brett Rentmeester  12:13  
Yeah. Well, that's a good question, Andrew, because it's not fully rolled out, I can't really answer that. I think, if it's a state issuing it, and they have complete control, they also have the ability to put the money back end, or in theory, they have the money, the authority to print money and give it to the people they want, and to take money from others. So maybe if you're on the good side, and I'm on the bad side, you can have some added to your account, I'm going to have some taken away. In our paper, we go through some hypothetical kind of fictional scenarios that are that are a little more troubling. But I think the biggest risk is the control factor. And it's the first time again, cbdc, we should think programmable money if people walk away with one thing, that that's what it is, who do we want to program the money? Probably not the government and central banks, because they will program it for their own means and ends. And that might not align with with what works for you. 

Andrew Brill  13:05  
So will the digital currency that the central banks are talking about work just like the cash in your pocket? Or is it like if they were, if there's a certain amount in your account on your phone or your wallet, it'll gain interest? Right now it's gaining a decent manage just wait a couple more months, when they start lowering rates, it'll gain a lot less interest. But will it work in a similar way? 

Brett Rentmeester  13:27  
Well, again, I mean, we don't really know. But I would imagine what central bankers like about the concept is it allows them to pull a lot of levers, they might say, hey, inflation's too high. We're gonna disincentive people to spend money, or, you know, they might want negative interest rates again, and now you're locked into this thing. And instead of earning 5% interest today, they're charging you 5%, you know, to hold the money there. So I mean, you can just imagine all the levers that can be pulled. And if you go one step further, if you'd allow me to just, you know, go on to the fiction side, and imagine a world where people end up with Central Bank digital currency. And by the way, I don't see it being a voluntary thing. I think they've tried this in Nigeria and other places. And by and large, the public rejects it. So the only way I think it happens is if you truly have a crisis of confidence, a collapse of the system as we know it and in offered, here's the solution. You know, maybe it's a cram down for every $1,000 you had Andrew, here's 10 Central Bank, digital currency. cbdc is on your phone. But imagine a world like this again, fiction. You're using this and all of a sudden on your phone code five pops up. What's code five, you've overspent your allocation on non essential items, and we'll be precluded from buying anything in that category for 30 days, or maybe code seven pops up, you've exceeded your carbon footprint, the cbdc will only be good within a six mile radius of your home for the next six months, or maybe the most dreaded code 11 Your social credit If score is at risk of falling below a baseline 50 level should have dropped below that you'll be locked out of all of your funds for a period of six months. Furthermore, anyone in contact with you will be penalized in their own cbdc account. So I mean, you can just come up with scenario after scenario of the dangers out there if this is in the wrong hands. So it's really about, you know, again, it's not about the technology, but it's about the premise of complete control, centralization and programmability versus the competing force of decentralized, we don't need central banks and middlemen and government world and we've got kind of two, two paths headed forward.

Andrew Brill  15:38  
You just put me back in high school when I read 1984. And I'm like, okay, maybe Big Brother is watching. And it, it gives you that feeling like, Oh, my God, people are really trying to control us. I mean, you go through those, you know, codes, and you're like, I understand it's fiction. And I don't want to think that it's, you know, this could happen. But, look, if central banks and digital currency do happen, there's no telling what could happen. Look, you know, what we've had, you know, people say crazy things in this country, and you never know what could possibly happen. 

Brett Rentmeester  16:14  
That's right. And again, I think most people, if you ask them and say, No, I'm not interested in that, right. But what if the scenario is that's the only way you get Social Security or Medicare payments or welfare payments, you know, if they kind of force it into the system, there's going to be a pretty large percent of people that probably are going to adopt it, because it's their only choice. 

Andrew Brill  16:35  
Right. Because they were there are people who look at that social security payment as a means of retirement. Yeah. And there's people who need social benefits that are less fortunate. And if they have to take them this way, they're going to agree no matter what. So I think you're absolutely right about that. So let's go to the other side that we're we're not controlled. And explain to us the cryptocurrency side how that would work. And I know that when you have a cryptocurrency, it's I guess what the market would bear right? When it comes to how much it costs?

Brett Rentmeester  17:11  
Yes, certainly for things like Bitcoin, those type of examples we used for the stable coins, this whole new area, those are trying to create a little more of a stability. But again, I think, again, the primary differences include, these are decentralized, but transparent, the other ones transparent, but it gives one power, the power to you know, control all the levers, this is transparent, so everybody trusts it, but no one player can compromise somebody else's cryptocurrency right. And so I think, listen, this is still early stages in we're just seeing within the last year, certain companies, you know, use cryptocurrencies, we're seeing countries like El Salvador and potentially Argentina starting to use them. In fact, some of the biggest adoption of cryptocurrencies, is in countries that have blown up their currencies. And it makes sense, right? If if you're used to high inflation, or currency, massively devaluing, and you have a choice of owning whatever that is relative to something with limited supply, people are eventually going to get the hint and move into things that they think will hold value. And so that's the other key fundamental thing. I mean, just using Bitcoin as an example. 21 million will be the maximum supply ever and again, central bank digital currencies, you know, the sky's the limit, kind of kind of like what we have today, but it does seem like because the debts are so high today, if we go to that kind of system, first they have to rise that right size, the debts, there has to be a crisis, and some kind of reset, where they give you less, somebody's got to pay, you know, a price or or give up something for them to reset a system to move forward. So that's the fear, right? Will that come to fruition? We don't know. It's we're part of all part of the story. But I think the more people can educate themselves, about what central bank digital currencies are, and with a healthy skepticism and an understanding of other things they might be able to do to not put themselves in a position to be totally reliant on it, the better we'll all be.

Andrew Brill  19:17  
How do we protect ourselves against a central bank and not saying that it's totally a bad thing? I think that, look, we're discussing it and we're thinking it through and maybe if there's regulation that it could be okay. But if the way we're speaking right now, it seems like a really bad idea. How do we as protect ourselves from, you know, saying to the government, like we don't want this? 

Brett Rentmeester  19:44  
Yeah. Well, I think I mean, there's no perfect solution, but but I think fundamentally, you have to create resilience in your own life and not be totally dependent on the hand of government. So if your only way to put food on the table, etc, is Social Security or welfare or any payment coming right from the government, it's going to be a hard predicament to get out of, I think, for anybody with some means it's taking some steps to understand, hey, you're still going to have one foot in the old system, people have 401k. And things with limited choices, oftentimes, you're probably still going to have stocks, bonds, cash, like the old stuff, that's part of this system that could be tied up, but where you can look to have another foot outside that system, and that might be things like we're discussing cryptocurrencies that might be precious metals held outside, you know, the banks and brokerage firms, that might be certain niche types of real estate, the right kind of rental properties, and in the right markets, farmland could be energy and other tangible assets. Generally, tangible, hard asset type investments that can't be printed out of thin air are gonna go up in value as the mount of money in the system kind of multiplies. I think that's a good start. And I think a general education. So if and when somebody comes by to you, Andrew and says, hey, sign this paper to accept this on your phone to get your central bank digital currency, maybe enough people reject it, and they just can't push it through. I mean, we're going to see this play out in a lot of countries, because most central banks are working on it. So my guess is we might see it play out in another country, and succeed or fail first before we're faced with that in the US, but it is worth keeping a close eye on.

Andrew Brill  21:29  
Brett, do you see a hybrid scenario? I mean, you just explain where people get their government subsidies, or where their government payouts whether come from, you know, social security and whatnot, or welfare, food stamps, whatever it may be, I would assume they're gonna have to take that into Central Bank, digital currency, if it comes to fruition. So do you see a hybrid situation where some people are using it? And some people are not? Or some people are using both?

Brett Rentmeester  21:54  
Yeah, absolutely. I think they're kind of two competing systems. You know, theoretically, they could coexist. It's what I said earlier, inherently, there's nothing wrong with the idea of a central bank digital currency. The problem is you're giving control and programmability to an authority. So if they abuse it, then that's where all the problems come up. And, you know, look at the history of money, even in the US, post World War Two, you know, we kind of came up with this system where the dollar was going to represent money around the world, but it was backed with a certain ratio of gold, until we got called on that in 1971, and basically, moved away from that obligation. And now, you know, for the last 50 plus years, we've been with kind of a blank checkbook and not honoring where it started. So I could very much see a system rolling out and at first, it seems great, it's like Zelle or Venmo. And, you know, there's none of these hitches, but over time, things, you know, the hooks start coming in, in certain situations now, that may not occur. But it's just this acknowledgement that it could. And I personally believe that too much power corrupts, and it likely would, over time. So I think it's healthy when you see like, we have recently, a little more positive adoption of a free market, crypto centric way of being in the US in some other countries. I think, if given competition, I think people will choose over time a free period appear kind of the people's money. But you know, we'll see.

Andrew Brill  23:29  
Is there something we're missing with CBDCs? Is there is there a positive that I'm not seeing? You've obviously given us a lot of thought you've done your research, you know how this could work if implemented? I just seem to be missing something or positive here? 

Brett Rentmeester  23:48  
Well, again, it's from whose perspective are we looking at it from? From a government perspective, the positive might be, hey, Andrew owes taxes, I'm just going to take it out of his account. Or from a central bank perspective, it could be, hey, we're trying to get the inflation rate up, let's just hand out a bunch of money and tell people they have to spend it in the next week, or it disappears from their account, right? It gives them this feeling like they're controlling the levers, but much like this wizard of oz analogy that one of my colleagues wrote about recently in a different context. It's it's the man behind the curtain for the individuals. Yeah. I mean, is it any step up from Venmo? Or, you know, sending cryptocurrencies? I can't see it. I mean, yes, we're going to move more digital in the world. But there's a difference between becoming digital and creating a programmable money that people can, you know, restrict you from take away from you or, you know, put an agenda on and I think that's where the problem lies. 

Andrew Brill  24:47  
Sounds to me like there's AI in here somewhere and that is going to get us. When it comes to a global financial crisis and we've had them, does crypto currencies protect against that sort of thing?

Brett Rentmeester  25:01  
Well, that's a great question, Andrew, I think that the true cryptocurrency believers would probably argue that if the root of the problem ends up being Fiat or government issued currencies, that one, it's likely global in nature. So it's probably not just the problem with the dollar, it's probably with the dollar, the yen, the euro, it's kind of a run on the system. And to they'd probably be of the belief that if you have that people look for something that they can trust, and what might they go to? Well, historically, it's been maybe gold and silver, real estate, things that have been tangible. I think in the future, it could very well be the right cryptocurrencies. Now, that being said, in the past, when you had big market downturns and equities were down 30, 40, 50% cryptocurrencies probably followed down. So it's a question mark, I think there might be a day in the future where things are down and cryptocurrencies are up, but are we there yet? It's tough to say.

Andrew Brill  25:55  
So my last question Brett is, you know, we follow cryptocurrencies in the market, and we see them go up, we see them go down. So the value of that of that coin, that one Bitcoin, is for argument's sake, right around 70,000, tomorrow could be 67, or it could be 74, could be higher, or it could be lower. So our wealth is dictated by that, instead of like, I have $1 in my pocket, I have $1 might not be worth 100 pennies. But it's that's what it is, or is cryptocurrencies that volatile where your wealth could be, look, you know, X amount one day and X amount lower than next?

Brett Rentmeester  26:41  
Yeah, I would say it is it is that volatile. And it's been a rewarding path for those that have held on. But you're right. I mean, the swings are pretty severe, it still has a lot of speculative money in it, I think, you know, the better historical store of value would be thinking about something like gold or silver, gold pretty much has held its purchasing power. It's bought the same basket of goods today that it did 50 years ago that did 100 years ago. You can't say that about the dollar, it just kind of slowly erodes. Right. So I think they say the original dollar and 1913 is lost, you know, 95% of its value, right? So that's why the house in 1960, that was $5000 to $10,000 is now $800,000. Right? So the dollar is not stable, either. But because we're used to it, and it's a slow decline in purchasing power. We kind of miss, we miss the magnitude of it. But you're right, I would say the true store of value are things like gold and silver, the dollar and the currencies are kind of on a slow path of devaluation, in cryptocurrency is still more of a wildcard but I think the believers look at it and say, yes, it's going to be volatile. Yes, I shouldn't put all my wealth in it. But I believe that enough smart people will look for something of a limited supply. That might be part of the future. I think I think that's the premise. But you have to approach it very much eyes wide open relative to the volatility and risk.

Andrew Brill  28:03  
So Brett, you chose your own adventure, you pick the page? How does this story end? Or where does it go from here? 

Brett Rentmeester  28:10  
Well, I mean, if I were to handicap things I do think the world is heading towards, I'll call it a crisis of confidence. It probably comes down to the debt levels, and the fiat currencies. It's just we've gotten to this point where it's seemingly the math doesn't add up anymore. And we don't even have a US budget. And it seems like we'll spend money in every direction at this point. So it feels a little bit to me. Like maybe it's the end of Rome, and it's just you spend well, the spendings. Good. And then, you know, there's something coming. So I think there's going to be a moment of crisis? I hope not. But I mean, that would be my what I believe there's going to be a moment of crisis and some clarity and governments are going to react with something that they have debt, they hope people will accept central bank digital currencies, they might work for a little bit, but I think enough people are awake to the dangers in the ultimately kind of fail. And then I think we'll move to a free market solution, whether that's gold and silver or cryptocurrencies. I mean, even Zimbabwe, that's gone been a basket case of hyperinflation, they now have a gold backed currency. Now, do you trust that they have all the gold? It's all those questions, but I think we're going to move to a world where it's a return to trust, but we don't get back to trust and freedom without first going through a little bit of a chaotic period of, of testing the waters. So unfortunately, I see a little turmoil in the future or a lot. But I think we'll get through it. And I think the more people are educated and aware of these issues, the more people will choose gold, silver cryptocurrencies and then that path will win and governments will have to continuously accepted and adopted I mean, the regulatory stance in the US has changed dramatically. He set from a couple of years ago even China you know, these countries that were really cracking down and didn't want to see it succeed or all of a sudden saying hey, it's all over the world, the cats out of the bag, we can't really stop it. So we either adopted at some level or were left behind you know, technologically so I think there's positive things to think about in the long run. But I do think that there's probably a difficult period to to contend with.

Andrew Brill  30:23  
I guess we haven't really been flying through smooth air for a while so a lot more turbulence to come but just want to thank you Brett for coming on. And it's a great read, check it out at Winrockwealth.com. You can find all your research and your colleagues research at Winrockwealth.com. Along with some of the videos that you've posted that we've been on together with. So is that the best place to find Winrock 

Brett Rentmeester  30:47  
That is Andrew. 

Andrew Brill  30:49  
And again, if you guys need help being financial resilient, Brett's one of the people that you can find at Winrock. And if you either go to our website, go to Winrock directly, and he's one of the guys that will help you keep, preserve and grow your wealth. Thanks so much, Brad. 

Brett Rentmeester  31:05  
Thank you. 

Andrew Brill  31:06  
That's a wrap on another discussion here on wealthy and thank you for joining us. If you need help being financially resilient, please head over to wealthion.com. Sign up for a free no obligation portfolio review with one of our registered investment advisors that would be Brett, and remember to follow us on social media for the latest news and information to help you invest wisely. And if you could like and subscribe to the channel, we greatly appreciate it. Don't forget to hit the notification bell so you can find out when we post new videos to the channel. Thanks again for watching and until next time, stay informed, be empowered and may your investments flourish. And if you like this content, please watch this video next.

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The world of finance and investment is intricate and diverse. It’s our mission at Wealthion to provide you with a variety of insights and perspectives to help you navigate it more effectively. We thank you for your understanding and your trust.

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This is why we created Wealthion. To bring you the insights of some of the world’s experienced wealth advisors and then connect you with like-minded, independent financial professionals who will create and manage an investment plan custom-tailored to you. We only recommend products or services that we believe will add value to our audience.  Some links on our website are affiliate links. This means that if you click on them and use the affiliate’s services, we may receive a payment from the vendor at no additional cost to you. 

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