Beyond Volatility: Dan Morehead’s Vision for a Blockchain-Powered World

Anthony Scaramucci 0:16
so we’re rocking and rolling. And so joining us now on speak up, this is a huge get for me because he is an OG in the crypto space. It’s Dan Morehead from Pantera. Capital. And, Dan, I’m gonna let you talk a little bit about the history of the firm. But what I love about this firm, is you got into crypto before any of us even knew what crypto is. Or at least I didn’t know what crypto was. I think you’re you were there and 13 ahead of the Winklevoss brothers. But you know, you’re a trade fi guy, Mr. Morehead. So what happened? Tell us a little bit about the beginning of the firm. And tell us about the apple that hit you on the head to move you a decade ahead of the rest of us into crypto. And thanks for joining the show.

Dan Morehead 1:02
Oh, Anthony, thanks for having me. I know it’s funny. The background is I’ve been a global macro trader my whole career. And I was previously at Tiger management, you know, looking around the world to find things where the reward was very asymmetric, you know, a lot of upside. But yeah, you know, ways you could lose money. And so every three, four years, something cool come along, you know, Russian privatization, or Middle East equities, or the Brazilian rial, or whatever, you know. And so, you know, those were good trades. They were they were, they were worth doing. But in 2011, my brother introduced me to Bitcoin. And at the time, they were literally giving them giving them away for free. Gavin Andreessen, the chief scientist of Bitcoin had this thing called Bitcoin Faucet. And if you signed up, you would get free Bitcoins from them, because it was such a young project. And I haven’t bit of a libertarian streak me and I was like, Hey, that sounds great. I hope this Bitcoin thing works, but didn’t actually do anything for like a year. And then a couple friends of mine wanted me to really help them think through Bitcoin. And as I read about it, it took a while to get my head around it, but it really the light bulb moment, like you said, was just realizing this is the kind of the biggest advancement in finance in 500 years, right, like, double entry bookkeeping was great. And so banks have made a lot of money over the last five centuries, keeping everyone’s Ledger’s for them. But that trust has been really expensive, right, banks keep blowing up, taxpayers bailing them out, they charged a lot of fees. Credit card companies still charge 300 basis points to an electronic transaction in 2024. That’s obviously anti competitive pricing. Mike, migrants still pay a month’s wages to send their remittance back home. So all of these, quote, trust systems from the legacy finance world are super expensive, and frankly, slow and they get hacked. And there’s lots of other disadvantages. And that’s what Bitcoin is, and that was a lightbulb moment is that anyone on Earth with a smartphone can send money or even other kinds of digital property to each other, basically, instantaneously and basically free and so it’s going to disrupt the world, right? All right. Well, we’re both

Anthony Scaramucci 3:17
old enough, though, to know that there was an E cash in the 90s. We’re both old enough to know that there were attempts for digital payment systems. And all of those failed. But there was something very unique about Bitcoin, the Satoshi Nakamoto white paper that allowed it to grow, exceed and start to exponentially proliferate. What was that, Dan? And I can see, I think it looks like someone that’s behind you. What is that? Is that the white paper behind you? Yeah, Anthony, the

Dan Morehead 3:51
wild thing is the entire white paper fits on one smart wall. Like, that’s what’s so wild about the genius of Satoshi is the entire Bitcoin projects, 3000 words. And, you know, fits on a few pieces of paper. So there was some very good projects before that. Nick Zabo, did a project that was fantastic. Adam back did Hashcash. And there were a couple of projects that were very close, but each one was kind of missing that one critical element and Satoshi is the first person to put them all together. So that essentially trust is provided by free cryptography, rather than these expensive, you know, Legacy finance systems, and that’s why it’s taken off. So, you know, so Well, you know, probably 400 million people now using it, it’s really grown.

Anthony Scaramucci 4:43
So I’m gonna I’m gonna fully embarrass myself on my own show. I have a tweet from 2012 I don’t understand Bitcoin. It sounds like nonsense, Caveat emptor. Don’t we have a tweet for everything just to fully embed So as I, I totally missed it. I didn’t see it. I said to myself, Okay, this is a crypto graphic code. I’ll quote some trade five people that call it financial blather or mathematical blather. But I didn’t see it. I didn’t really understand that I got to the White House. And of course, I had a short stay in the White House. This happened on a Wednesday, Dan, because I was only there for one Wednesday. So I remember it was a Wednesday, the Fed came in to talk about digitizing the dollar. I was like, What the hell are they talking about? No, no, we want to do this over the blockchain. You’re already four or five years into it. I’m not anywhere near it. And it became clear to me that we’re going in this direction. But what do you say, to our trade five friends that haven’t looked at it? Don’t understand it? What do you say to viewers and listeners, who frankly, don’t have the Satoshi white paper on their wall, haven’t spent as much time in finance as you or me? How do you get them comfortable with all this? Because there’s been some frightening volatility. There’s been a lot of naysayers has been the SEC beating a drum against it. How do you get people comfortable that this is going to be a big part of their future?

Dan Morehead 6:17
Yeah. So, you know, we started out talking about a bunch of the reasons why it could be really valuable, because it’s replacing credit card companies, banks, remittance companies, all these super expensive businesses out there. But even if someone doesn’t really want to buy that the simplest argument I make to investors is the best way to build a portfolio to buy a bunch of diverse things. And you don’t have to be right on every single one of them, right, you don’t have to have 100% certainty that Bitcoin is going to be the thing. If you have a portfolio with a bunch of things in there, as long as they have good expected return, and they’re not very correlated, you’re gonna do well, Bitcoin is the dream asset. It has a 11 year, compound annual growth rate of almost 100%. So almost doubles every year. And it does that with almost no correlation to the s&p 500. It’s 0.1. So if you could ever find an asset that has expects to double every year, and have no correlation to anything else you own, that is a dream asset. It also has a really cool feature. Bitcoin has a four year kind of periodicity because they cut the supply every four years. Anyone that’s ever held Bitcoin for four years has more than doubled their money. And you and I know we’ve traded a lot of things over the last 35 years. There’s no other asset class like that, that if you’ve held it for four years, you’re guaranteed Well, in the past, you’ve always made money. And so that is normally enough to get people to budge. And when people ask how much they should have in their portfolio, I just say the only wrong answer is zero. Like, depends on your circumstances, how old you are, like where you are in the risk spectrum, all that stuff. But that’s really what people need to do is get off zero and put a percent or two of their either personal net worth or their their professional portfolio and, and what I found over 11 years of talking to people about this, within a couple of months, they’re already buying more and they’re learning about it and kind of those initial knee jerk skepticisms have all gone away. Okay,

Anthony Scaramucci 8:17
so So let me push a little Okay, and I want to switch topics over Let me push a little. Jamie Dimon says it’s a pet rock, it’s a Ponzi scheme. It’s decentralized nonsense. You’ve got places like Vanguard one of the largest ETF providers in the world, but you know what? Bitcoin ETF? Not for me, you have journalists, I go on these shows. One woman said to me, well, obviously, you’re just buying this because this number go up. And it’s crowded psychology here, and the minute the crowd loses confidence in this, they’re gonna flood out of it. So there’s no intrinsic value to it. Help me? Help me you got I got to steal ideas from you more it helped me go on television and combat these people. Go ahead. What do you say? Yeah,

Dan Morehead 9:05
so I mean, I love that argument been hearing it for so long to the intrinsic value of a Jackson Pollock is 40 bucks. It’s some canvas and some house paint. But there’s a 70 year track record of Jackson Pollock’s being a very good place to store your wealth. There’s a limited supply of them provable authenticity, all that it’s the same with with the, you know, Bitcoin or I would even say if you want to go all the way out there gold, right? Why they picked number 79 The periodic table, there’s no special reason gold is what people have used for money for 5000 years, but it has a 5000 year track record of doing that. So Bitcoin is only 15 years old. So it needs to keep growing, keep evolving. But that is the way to think about it is anything can be money. Anything can be value, gold, Jackson, Pollock, seashells, whatever. And bitcoin does it very well, because it does it very cheaply. It’s never failed. has been 24/7 uptime for 15 years. So when people do, you know, use that kind of knee jerk argument that there’s no intrinsic value, you can easily deal with that. And then, you know, I would imagine some of the people have been super negative about crypto, we’re really thinking from their own competitive standpoint, that if you’re a bank, and you issue a lot of credit cards, you probably don’t want your customers being able to do all that, by themselves on their own smartphone, they don’t want to, you know, route around the bank. So banks are certainly threatened by by Bitcoin, where

Anthony Scaramucci 10:30
do you think things are going? Yeah, so

Dan Morehead 10:33
it is a parlor game to make the most outlandish prediction out there. And people want to, you know, put a million or whatever. I’ve been saying this for a long, long time, it’s been doubling every year in my career in Bitcoin. And that’s always my forecast, if you want to know where I think it’ll be in a year is probably 130,000. You know, and sometimes I’m a little behind, sometimes a little ahead, but really over any period of time it has been doing that. And I think I’ll keep doing that for quite a while. We might even exceed that. Because you mentioned there were a lot of very, very rare and crazy things that happen that were negative shocks to the blockchain ecosystem in 2022, and 2023. And all those are at least gone and neutral. And some of them actually swing around like the ETF being approved is a huge, positive, huge positive. And actually, way more important, I would say, then the futures being approved by the CFTC in 2017.

Anthony Scaramucci 11:29
When you when you look at the volatility of this asset, and you know, I’m talking to you on a day after Bitcoin reached, its all time high, it then dropped immediately went from 69,000 to 59,000. Now it’s at 66,000. How do you get comfortable with that? Again, I’m asking it from I’m asking you to be empathetic about this, because I’m asking it from the eyes and ears of a retail investor joining the Wealthion network, trying to help out their families. Yeah,

Dan Morehead 12:02
so it is highly volatile. One thing to think about, though, is in our training in Wall Street, we’re always taught volatility is bad. The way I think about blockchain and Bitcoin is it’s like a call option on the future payment rail of the world. And when you’re long an option you love fall, right? Like, it’s great. And so, in the 15 years of Bitcoin, most of all, so there’s been to the upside. There’s certainly been some big bear markets and you know, yesterday is something you know, that tests the faint of heart, but what people should do is only put the amount of money they’re willing to suffer an 80% drop, and still like, have their spouse like it, don’t put more than that into Bitcoin, you’ll be fine. And you definitely as long as you’re willing to hold it for a few years, maybe even five or 10 That’s the way to think about it’s like a venture although it has instantaneous 24/7 trading, think of it like a venture investment, figure out how much money you’re willing to lose, just put that amount in and then you know, hold it all right, I’m

Anthony Scaramucci 13:02
putting my unit bomber I hate the government total full on libertarian, I’ve got you know, ready made meals in my basement and you know, a fifth A 15 is a 60s they take this asset away from us. I’ve got I’ve got Bitcoin OG guy saying to me, the obviously Michael sailor and I’ve had this conversation, but I got Bitcoin OG guy saying to me, Oh, this is a disaster. These coins are all going to get consolidated in this 11 or 12. ETS and then the government’s gonna pull the ripcord and have a taking taking all this property from us. And What say you, Mr. Moore? Yeah,

Dan Morehead 13:44
I mean, I just think that, although theoretically possible, it’s just like, it’s very, very small. It’s right. There’s 400 million people around the world that have Bitcoin, probably 40 million Americans have Bitcoin. I just it seems very, kind of out there to think the government’s going to confiscate something that so many voters have. And then lastly, man, it’s hard to confiscate something that’s decentralized and in the cloud, right?

Anthony Scaramucci 14:12
Yeah. Well, that was a point there, though, confiscated by taking the ETFs which are a form of centralization. Yeah,

Dan Morehead 14:21
that’s a long running debate, you know, that Satoshi envisioned this totally decentralized world. And then we get Coinbase and BlackRock, right. But I view this as kind of an interregnum state in like in 20 years. We’re not going to be using those things anymore. Everyone’s just gonna have a wallet on their smartphone, and they’re going to, you know, not be needing things like ETFs.

Anthony Scaramucci 14:42
Before we take questions on the audience, Stan, can you tell us a little bit about your venture business? What do you think about in venture? What are some of the exciting companies that you’re looking at or ideas maybe themes in venture on the digital space, perhaps AI or whatever it is that you guys work on? Yeah, so

Dan Morehead 15:01
we launched the first crypto fund in the US and then a couple of months later launched the first blockchain venture fund with the premise that it’s going to change so many different businesses that, you know, we want to invest in entrepreneurs who can use blockchain to do things better, faster and cheaper. And, you know, we still think there’s another couple of decades of incredible innovation in blockchain space. So our firms actually about 80% venture and only 20% token investing, because a lot of the opportunities are in the venture space. And we’ve seen a lot of cool opportunity is still in the exchange space, you know, other there’s still some exchange we’re investing in. We like for example, we’re invested in bit so in Mexico, they already do almost 10% of all US to Mexico remittance over Bitcoin. And no one writes that article, because it’s good news, you know, like, you got you can’t sell newspapers writing good news, you want to talk about bad things that happen. But 3 million Mexicans are helped by Bitcoin. Every year, it’s awesome. So we’re still investing in those things. There’s a lot to do in the scaling space, we’ve been a big investor in arbitrage and stark ware, which are very prominent scaling solutions and blocks route, because Bitcoin and Aetherium only do 10 transactions per second, and those needs to do more. There’s a there’s a lot of bots still doing web three, the concept of taking all these really cool web companies like Airbnb, Spotify and doing in a decentralized, cooperatively Encorp governed way, you know, so there’s a huge amount to do there as well.

Anthony Scaramucci 16:42
Because I like you, I love the space. And I’m fascinated by by wading into these things. I think that the the thing that I’m trying to do on this show, and you’ve been very helpful, is to get people to calm down and get people to see what you see and what I see. And so I want to put you at the kitchen table of a person. He’s a 50 year old, he’s got two kids about to go to college. He’s setting up his IRA, and he’s setting up his investment portfolio. Give him some advice, and how does he stretched himself away from just a 6040? stock and bond allocation? What do you say to a person like that? Again, I’m just generics. Yeah,

Dan Morehead 17:28
and so for that, I really do think, you know, everyone should have an allocation to blockchain. And, you know, if you if you have some kids going to college, you might need the money, you got to keep it in the single digit percentage is that your portfolio, because it really can go down, you know, 60, or 80%, and future, but to get a lease, Bitcoin and Aetherium, but potentially, you know, broader mix of things. And even just Bitcoin in theory was a pretty good kind of simple portfolio to have of how to get exposure to this space. And then again, do it in a size you can hold it for two or three or four years because, you know, there might be some, you know, some bumps like you said yesterday 10%, you know, downdraft in the market could easily happen a bunch again, but it’d be pretty hard to imagine four or five years from now, the price has been lowered there today.

Anthony Scaramucci 18:20
Alright, let’s take some questions. Why don’t we fire in the first question that I think is a good one for you, Dan, where do you see the trajectory of Aetherium in the next 618 months? And this is from Lachlan in Sydney, Australia.

Dan Morehead 18:34
Yeah, so we’re very bullish on Aetherium. It’s obviously the second biggest blockchain but it has, you know, ton of developers on it. And so, although we think blockchain generally is going to continue, it’s almost 100% compound annual growth rate, a theory might overperformance currently about 35% of the value the Bitcoin market cap. We can imagine seeing that inch up over time.

Anthony Scaramucci 19:01
All right, let’s go to the next question. As a fellow Long Island or what tips do you have for young family starting to invest? We are hit hard with the very high taxes that max out the salt deduction, let alone the housing costs. This is from Eddie from Merrick Long Island. You know, Mr. Morehead, I believe is in Puerto Rico. Do I have that correct, sir, I am a resident of Puerto Rico, Puerto Rico and so important you only paid 4% tax Eddie from Merrick. Okay was one of my favorite towns I used to hang out in the the Oceanside Nathan’s as a kid and so if you’re an older guy like me, Eddie, you’ll, you’ll remember that place. But but for Mr. Moore heads benefit salt is state and local tax deductions, of course are limited now to only $10,000. So it’s really hurt this area. We’ve seen 500,000 people frankly leave New York since the 2017. Salt deduction cap went into place But if you like Long Island like me, and I’m not leaving, you know, I’m going to be shutting the lights out on Long Island perhaps with you. I would listen to Mr. Morehead and I would make an allocation towards Bitcoin. Because he is, you know, obviously a brilliant guy. And if you can accept some volatility, so small percentages of it, I think you’ll do very well. It’ll expand your portfolio. And it’ll give you and your family some breathing room, and then you want to add to that debt. No, I

Dan Morehead 20:31
agree with what you said. And I just add that it’s very fortunate that in 2013, the IRS was way ahead of some of their peers in the regulatory community. And they ruled on cryptocurrencies and said that they’re not currencies, actually their property. And so you get long term capital gains tax treatment. So that is a huge plus compared to some of the other things that you might be investing in out there.

Anthony Scaramucci 20:54
All right, great answer. Let’s go to the next question. Which of you in the great taking by David Webb okay. So I’ll take this, I’ve actually read it. This is Jim from Calgary. And so the notion there, Dan is about a great taking by the government, of your assets. And so the word taking is actually an old property term, you know, the government has the ability through eminent domain, excuse me to do a taking. Now, what has been grounded in US property law, US contract law, is they can’t do that without offering your fair market value. But a lot of people sometimes have a dispute over what fair market value is, as an example, Dan, and I probably think our bitcoins going to 40,000. So we certainly wouldn’t want to give it to the government here at 66,000. And so, but David, the thing that I would tell you, is if they went to implement a quote, unquote, great taking, there would be a revolution. And that’s been historically accurate for the last 5000 years. So I don’t see that happening. It’s an interesting and fascinating, apocalyptic type of book. But I am not worried about that. I think this is one of the big benefits of joining us on Wealthion, I’m trying to dispel people from these like nine sigma, notions of the apocalypse. Mr. Morehead and myself have made our money by going down the middle, and having a good long term program and believing in the faith of our property laws, the faith of our contract and our legal system. And that certainly proved to be the case here in 2024, you know, Mr. Gensler, due to political purposes, tried to stop that Bitcoin ETF. But he wasn’t able to do that, because we have a very decentralized government. We have lots of checks and balances in the system. So I wouldn’t overly worry about that. I don’t know if Dan wants to chime in anything there. But that’s what the great taking is.

Dan Morehead 23:02
Yeah, the I would totally agree with you that that we shouldn’t worry about those kind of nine sigma events that probably are gonna happen. There are very silent takings, though, that have just happened in the policy space, they printed $2 trillion of new money, new paper money, and that has debased value paper money and inflated the value of everything that is in fixed quantity, whether it’s the s&p 500 at record highs, whether it’s real estate homes in the United States, when it 40%, like everywhere, not just the hottest markets everywhere. And so in my opinion, it is somewhat of a taking, because the majority of Americans are under 40. They don’t have a big house, right, like, and so, you know, government policies really are impacting citizens. And although I believe that very deeply, from a political standpoint, they actually answers the same by Bitcoin, right? Like, it’s, they can’t, there’s only 21 million, and they’re not gonna make any more. So if you’re, if you are worried about the government, kind of debasing the value of your assets, you know, it is good to store some of your wealth in something that they can’t debase. So,

Anthony Scaramucci 24:10
I mean, it’s a very insightful answer. And Jim, you gotta listen carefully what Dan is saying, because that inflation does eat up people. It really bothers me, by the way, guys, because, you know, this happened to my father and then 1870s and just, you know, he was a blue collar worker, he had hourly wages, wages came in, you had massive inflation and all of a sudden the purchasing power for the family went down, even though he was working super hard at the same job. And so, without the stability in the currency, what happens is you get a lot of people become disenfranchised, and I think this is impacting our political system. There’s a very large group of people in our country, perhaps also in Canada, that are saying, Hey, this is really unfair, what’s happening and so, in a weird way, Bitcoin as As it continues to expand and exponentially grows, and Dan, and I see it as a hard asset, because it’s 21 million coins, it can be broken up in Satoshis, of course. But it’s a hard fixed asset with limited supply. It sort of takes the drunk drivers, also known as central bankers, and policy makers in these in these big governments that are printing this money. It takes the drunk driving keys away from them, and it forces people into a stricter accounting system. Is that fair to say?

Dan Morehead 25:34
Yeah, I think it’s a great way to say that it’s kind of putting monetary power back into the people’s hands, right? Like, nobody asked me to vote on whether the Fed should do 200% of all mortgage lending in the US for 2020 and 2009. I was crazy. But I didn’t get to vote. Where’s with Bitcoin? I vote with my wallet. All right, well, we’re

Anthony Scaramucci 25:54
really, really good answer there. Let’s go to the next one. Where do you put our money while we wait for the dollar the fall? And bricks to rise? Okay, this is Gary from Austin, Texas. And so I think Dan and I both believe bitcoin is an asset, where you should put some of that money, but we’re others other places. You’re a great macro trader have been around a while. What other places would you besides Bitcoin? Where would you put money to create an inflation hedge for people relative to the US dollar?

Dan Morehead 26:26
Yeah, so I think the answer does come back to anything a fixed quantity and rates are still so low, you know, they’re really just basically right above inflation. So you still want to be long things that have a fixed quantity. So real estate’s a classic, you know, it’s it’s a good hedge against debasing the dollar, you know, cryptocurrencies are good. So anything that’s got a fixed quantity is where you want to be.

Anthony Scaramucci 26:57
Any other questions out there team? How do you see Great Britain in the next few years? This is Jack from Exeter, UK. Go ahead, Mr. Moore. What do you say?

Dan Morehead 27:08
Well, I’ve lived and worked in the United Kingdom twice and loved it. But I don’t have any particular insight on the UK. Now I’m so focused on Bitcoin.

Anthony Scaramucci 27:17
So I’ll say something that I’ve noticed and like, like, Dan, I’ve lived and worked in the United Kingdom. And I love I love your country, I will, I will point that out, I have a little bit of an angle file. But I will say this, I like the energy. I feel like it was a mistake to Brexit. Some of you disagree with me on that. But if you look at the economic data, the country’s economy shrunk post Brexit, it didn’t need to. But I like the energy in the country now related entrepreneurship, and adaptations, and it’s forcing the UK Government to go in that direction. And, and I see the digital space as it relates to financial services leadership. The UK I think is more forward than even the United States as it relates to the digital space. So I think there’s some bright years ahead for the UK. And for the GP, as you say, Jack, what’s the next question? What alternatives to treasuries yielding 5% in market, but the market remaining frothy? What other alternatives you have out there? Besides treasuries yielding 5%? And why aren’t institutions putting greater allocations to the government? Considering this backdrop? So markets are frothy, we got a 5% yield? Where do you go with the money? Yes, Bitcoin, where are they? What are the places?

Dan Morehead 28:44
Yeah, you don’t I would actually say, in this environment, cash is better than long bonds, you know, they’ve printed enormous amount of money. Inflation has been very, very high. And the tenure notes for the quarter right now, that doesn’t really give you much, much leeway, you know, inflation’s been running at decades highs. And I think the problem is, it’s really a labor shortage, rather than any of these other excuses that, you know, people have said, and, you know, you’re starting to get cost of living increases built into contracts, like the 70s. So I lived through the 70s as well. And those are all coming back. So many stats are very similar to the 70s and the 80s. And so I really do see inflation staying much, much higher over the next five or 10 years. So, you know, cash actually is a decent alternative. You know, because there was a pricing in of the Fed cutting, you know, rates down to two or 3% a year ago that the feds not cutting for a long time. You know, there’s still a lot of issues. Alright, so I want

Anthony Scaramucci 29:47
before I let you go, I want you to play Fed chair just for one moment, okay, because you’re in a little bit of a box as the Fed Chair chairman. Moorhead you have $34 trillion of deficit, the US government’s decided they’re not going to do anything to solve that crisis. So we’re, we’re spending five to 6% of our GDP in deficit spending seem to be getting away with it now, but perhaps not forever. So you have pressure on the budget, because we’re gonna go over $1 trillion of interest expenses, as our debt rolls in the next couple of years, I guess, 38% of its rolling in the next two or three years. So you got that issue? And then you have the issue of this inflation that you’re describing. Okay, so what do you do? You’re in the box? Where do you move rates over the next 18 to 24 months?

Dan Morehead 30:39
I know this is a controversial answer, but I don’t think you do I think they’re gonna stay here because the Feds dual mandate is to keep inflation is quote stable prices, somehow debasing our currency 2% of years now called stable, but if you said that to anybody else, that sounds terrible, but so they’re only supposed to debase your, your, your purchasing power by 2% Every year anymore. And we’re still, you know, way above that, and they’re supposed to maintain, quote, full employment. And I think we all would agree, we’re beyond that, you know, that the unemployment rate is so low, we have a lot of wage inflation. So I don’t see the Fed cutting at all and frankly, you know, there’s a 30% chance the next moves or a hike a year and a half from now, I’m not saying like next week, but I think the Feds just gonna be sitting here, not being able to cut and that’s why I think cash is decent alternative because you’re gonna get 5% for the next couple years.

Anthony Scaramucci 31:37
Harwell is spent and amazing to have you on. Dan, I really am grateful. Any last words for our audience before I let you go?

Dan Morehead 31:44
Yeah, honestly, the thing I’ve been spreading, you know, around us just try and get over the hump to get a little bit of exposure to the crypto because once you do to start reading about it, you’ll realize it is that important, you know, and ultimately, you’ll probably, you know, really do well with it.

Anthony Scaramucci 32:03
Well, I want to I want to offer you at a personal thank you because you were waiting in the water long before me and the water seemed pretty warm for you. So I said I gotta get to understand this and got to get in there. So I want to thank you for your intellectual leadership, and helping us get there. One of the real pioneers in the crypto space and OG as I say, ladies and gentlemen, Dan Morehead, thank you for joining us on SpeakUp

Dan Morehead 32:31
anything Thank you