Highly-successful commodities investor Marin Katusa shares the best practices in hard assets investing learned over the course of his career. Right now, he sees America and other Western countries with strong rule of law as the best jurisdictions to invest in commodities plays.
Marin Katusa 0:00
So you have to really understand not just the technical aspects, but where’s the rule of law. And I like to think that there’s incredible assets in America where you have rule of law, you have infrastructure. And again, they haven’t brought modern technology. And using the new software aspects, the new technology that can reduce your risk and reduce the cost of your capital.
Adam Taggart 0:27
Welcome to Wealthion. I’m Wealthion founder Adam Taggart, I’m here with a great guest. Today I’m here with Marin Katusa. Marin is one of the most highly successful, independent natural resource investors in the world. He’s has a specialized approach of bringing new technologies to old assets and basically unlocking value that was, in some cases, unattainable or unreachable by previous forms of technology. But but using technology basically, to resuscitate these old resources and get a lot more value out of them has been incredibly successful at it. Another thing that really, I think characterizes Marin success, is he factors in intentionally the importance of geopolitics into his investments. As a matter of fact, he’s he’s told me that that that may, in some cases, be the most important factor to keep into consideration. Lots to talk with Marianne about today. Especially we’ve had a lot of bearish people on the channel today. I think, Maron is going to have some elements here, where he sees lots of opportunity in the world. Very excited to dig into that with him. Maron thanks so much for joining us.
Marin Katusa 1:40
It’s my pleasure. Okay, it’s
Adam Taggart 1:42
a real pleasure. For me, it’s the first time you’re on the channel. So welcome. Hopefully, this is the first of many appearances going forward. Lots of questions for you. But But if we can just start with a general one, I like to ask everybody the first time they come on this program, what’s your current assessment of the global economy and financial markets?
Marin Katusa 1:59
So my view is obviously more on the resource and the utility energy side of things. So this is where I believe it’s at the velocity of capital slowing down, you have interest rates going up there is actually this is going to be shocking to a lot of people. Major deflationary pressures, deflationary pressures in the commodity cycle, you look at natural gas, you look at oil, look at Copper, you look at these base metals, it’s in a deflationary trend, things are slowing down, China hasn’t reopened the way that everyone expected on that, as interest rates go up, the cost of capital moves up means the growth aspect of the market is really compressing. And now the bean counters are looking at the dollars going, Geez, it’s gonna cost us eight 9% capital, not three. And that difference is why velocity is slowing down. I think it’s going to continue this trend in the near term. So be very cautious in where you’re investing and the key aspect and people forget about this, you know, just because you can have two exact copper deposits in two different places call it Chile, which is a huge copper producer, things are changing there. And it’s it’s this kind of cyclical process in Chile, look at the administration, you know that the taxes are gonna increase, you know that the cost of labor is gonna increase the power costs. So all these aspects have to be incorporated in the bankers don’t want you to know that the analysts remember, when they do NPV discounts. When you’re talking about a nav of a company, you’re telling me that the same gold mine, call it in Zimbabwe, or the DRC is going to get the same discount of something in Nevada, that doesn’t make any sense. So why would it like it’s just the bankers are in the process of selling paper, they don’t want you to kind of think about Wait a second, the political risk is a huge factor that is being overlooked and mispriced in our markets
Adam Taggart 3:56
are a great point. And just for folks that aren’t as steeped into how valuations are done. A common way to value an operation is to project out its cash flows, and then apply what’s called a discount rate, which is what Marian was just talking about there that discount rate really is it it’s a measurement of risk of how risky you think this venture is. And as Marin is saying there to you know, give the project in a in a very politically unstable part of the world. The same discount rate is one set here in the States really just doesn’t make any sense. And so you’re basically saying that that risk is to a certain extent being deliberately obscured slash mispriced by bankers who just want to sell you on these projects. Alright, keep the capital going. Keep the capital going. Okay. All right. So, you’re, you spend your time a lot in the hard assets commodity world. We’re gonna talk a lot about that today. There’s a chart you’re famous for. I’m gonna ask you about a little bit later on Marin. But real quick In terms of this, this, these deflationary forces just wanna make sure I understand you correctly. So as competent cost of capital goes up, obviously fewer projects are going to be undertaken, right? Because there’s just less skin, there’s less profit to be made, because your financing costs are bigger. I’ve had people on this program before, like Rick Rule and Tommy caster who are involved in natural resources investing, and they’ve been ringing a warning bell for years, saying that we have under invested in capex in a lot of commodity sectors going forward. One, I want to see if you agree with that, which is it they’re basically saying even if demand sort of just stays where it is, for the for the next decade, we’re likely going to see increasing shortages of some key commodities because we under invested in the production capex, I assume that that rising cost of capital is only going to exacerbate that issue. Is that all true?
Marin Katusa 5:57
So Rick’s a very close friend of mine. We were partners in a fun together for over a decade. So I know Rick’s thought process really well. So let’s use uranium, which everyone will use as the case study for this. And now specifically state I was the largest global financier of uranium projects in the world. What we did was when uranium was under $20 A pound go up and buy permitted built facilities. And by producing cash flow royalties on World Class assets that are built in politically stable jurisdictions. Now, you got two items with uranium. And I’ve got a chapter on uranium in both of my books. Now, when you take, say, Kazakhstan, when you look at kazatomprom, it produces about 40% of the world’s primary uranium. But all roads lead to Moscow, who invested who built the processing of all that it’s still directly interlinked. With Russia, you have that aspect, you also have the currency aspect that I’m that people forget to talk about. So even though if you go back 10 years, the price of uranium went from call at 60 bucks to $20. Tanguay, the currency of Kazakhstan, and the ruble devalued at a greater rate than the actual commodity price, which meant that they’re still okay, on a relative basis. The third part is, is just because uranium is in the right setup. And it’s slowly moved up to about the mid 50s. Why would I go to places like the Arlette basin, which is very high grade built out by the French, in Nigeria, or other aspects in Africa, where it doesn’t matter, the price of uranium was has to go to $200 to ever make it economic to build the infrastructure to go make it work. The grades are too low, capex is too high, the government’s going to change the goalposts on your as you get closer and closer, just like Kazakhstan did to all of the foreign investors, whether they were French, European, Japanese, or Canadian. Remember, 20 years ago, Kazakhstan produced less than 2 million pounds of uranium in 20 years, they’ve increased that by over 25 fold. Okay, that’s the reality of what people have to understand. It’s using American technology, not Russian technology, ISR is American technology. So all of these aspects, just because of the setup. Why do I want to go say there’s projects in the Athabasca basin, in Saskatchewan in Canada, which is think of it as like the Nevada for, like, what Nevada is for gold, or Saudi Arabia is for oil when it comes to Uranium. It’s in Canada, because it’s so high grade, but it’s the space and where you think of like you got the east and the west, it’s got these kind of rings of deposits. There’s companies there that are saying they got nice deposits. But the problem with uranium is its radio active. You can’t just send it to a mill in China or in other parts of the world. You have to have a mill to build a processing mill is going to cost billions of dollars. And the problem with Athabasca basin, I’ve been there many times and it gets minus 30 degrees Celsius in the in the winter. You can’t just it’s not tents. These are forts that have to have the capacity you have to build libraries, music room, gyms, huge cafeterias. It’s like a, like a float NASA complex that has to house people during the harshest conditions on the planet. That’s billions of dollars of CapEx, you know, the roads in you have to have permanent you can’t even drive on other companies roads, the process there is realistic and for people to it, but you know who is mining, there’s certain management teams that are mining their shareholders paying themselves 10s of millions of dollars and haven’t produced a single pound of uranium. So even though I believe in the uranium story and the narrative, the supply demand matrix, you have to be cognizant It is that investment you’re playing, is it permitted is it built, because at the right time, you could have bought built, permitted for a fraction of the nav to go do that today. And that’s when cost of capital was a third of what it is today. So be very careful. The other aspect is government intervention, you have to play really realize that mining is one of the toughest dirtiest industries on the planet, that hence why it’s so cyclical. But it’s not like you can pick up your factory and leave the government are going to change the royalties on you. You look at Argentina, which I say for everyone’s money, it’s where money goes to die. I spent a lot of time there, one of my partners, Doug, Casey’s invested a fortune there, and you asked him he wished he never did, because it’s just a black hole for capital. You look at the yucca mortar shales with Chevron put in billions, they can’t make it work because the government, you can’t even get your capital, though. So you have to really understand not just the technical aspects, but where’s the rule of law. And I like to think that there’s incredible assets in America where you have rule of law, you have infrastructure, and again, they haven’t brought modern technology, and using the new software aspects, the new technology that can reduce your risk and reduce the cost of your capital.
Adam Taggart 11:21
All right, that is a phenomenal way to kick this interview off. And I want to go into number the points you just mentioned there. In you’ve even written a book actually on kind of your bullishness for America as a place to focus in for natural resources. So I definitely want to get into that. If we can Marin, what I’d like to do is maybe start with where are the places in the natural energy space, where you see the most opportunity right now that you’re most excited about? But maybe before we answer that question, we were talking before we turn the cameras on here. And you had talked about the importance of because of all these, these risk factors that you just listed off, the importance of what you said is following your process, right. And I believe there’s a Genesis to that mantra in your mind kind of a deeply personal one. But I think you might be willing to share that if you could just sort of under if you could explain really quickly for folks. You know why this follow? Your process is so important, and how then you apply it to the opportunities we’re about to talk about?
Marin Katusa 12:30
For sure. Look at him is Friday night. I was with my wife and I got Dr. B emailed me and he’s a fan of your show. And he said to him and his friends follow your work, I go out it’s been a while because Adam and I have been emailing for a while trying to figure out our schedules, and juice. What is it now about a decade ago, I was a young guy very successful on top of the world. And one of your subscribers, a doctor of mine saved my life. And I was having chest pains. I went to the emergency emergency was packed of, you know, all sorts of people across the spectrum. And he said, Look, if you have the signs, you got to stick to your guns, and I stuck to my guns stayed there for 40 hours, requested an angiogram and ended up saving my life. Without that the surgeon I ended up having a quadruple bypass said you wouldn’t be around by Monday. He’s just I was lucky, I had such a strong heart. I had a disease, blocked up arteries. And that kind of made me as a young man have a reality check going Jewish. I’ve spent the last 10 years of my life on the road traveling everywhere. And really, I went through my process with my team. And I was kind of just the Rick rules of the world who I partnered up with at that time, I was the next guy, the up and comer. Right? And I was a machine for a while like literally put my whole personal life on hold to make a bunch of money and be successful. When I went through all of my investments, Adam parados law was so evident. Almost 90% of my time was wasted traveling, going through all these projects, learning the industry, but investing in management teams that are unblemished with success as frequency, meaning parados law was so obvious that I started honing down my process focusing on the factors these little metrics, like cut off grade to average grade, the style of deposit the metallurgy and spending time with industry veterans and experts who had so much to share, but the bankers overlooked because it’s all about pay me now. So I really honed and kind of reset my mindset and the process. And a lot of people didn’t like what I was doing in uranium in 2017 2018 2019 because, you know, everyone’s a contrary until prices go down 75% Or your portfolio goes down 75% But the price process is the process. For me. What is a company established in Vancouver gonna have any leverage against the Chinese company or a Russian company in Kazakhstan, or in Uzbekistan, or Niger? Like, come on, guys get real with it. And I’ve been there and done it for, you know, where a company out of the US or, you know, that’s permitted and built. There’s a rule of law. So there’s a process to it, you know, in which sectors I think are really interesting. You don’t want to like for me, you look at AI right now, well, how are you going to compete with the Silicon Valley and all the money in AI? But what about, you know, the carbon credit sector, everybody hates it now? A year and a half ago, every idiot was raising 20 $30 million, and investing in stupid projects that I said, Are you guys insane? What are you doing? Again, stupid people do stupid things, and they lose money. But that doesn’t mean you can’t make money in a country and investment. And the less people there are competing with you, that sector is not going away. It’s going to evolve and adapt. Companies like Vera are going to come and go and have to restructure themselves in their process. But that is an incredible industry. I also am very bullish on uranium. I think uranium is great. But I’m not going to Nigeria, or Kazakhstan. Been there done that. And I’ve realized that there’s no advantage for an American or Canadian company to do that. So you got to be realistic with where you’re going. I’m also I love gold and gold’s been doing well, I like copper. But again, you got to be cognizant of where are you going? Are you going to go to Zimbabwe for copper? You know, Glencore, who’s one of the largest commodity traders is trying to come into Canada and de risk their portfolio. If the sharpest sharks in the industry, who have their assets in those politically risky jurisdictions are trying to follow my concept of de riskier portfolio. You might want to pay attention to that.
Adam Taggart 17:04
Got it? And are we? Are we at a point maybe in industry, where people are waking up to the Marin Katusa strategy and saying, like, do you see this derisking towards
Marin Katusa 17:16
huge, the big companies huge. If you go on my website, the first thing I ever published was when I bought just under 10%, of a company that became Kirkland Lake, and it was all about my report was all about fosterville. And I told everyone, this thing is going to produce 400,000 ounces of gold. Rick, who you mentioned earlier, sent me an O email and I saved them, and he thought I was wrong. And I said, Rick, we’ll see. I think I’ll cross swords with Rick any day when it comes to evaluation methods. So and he’s a very close friend of mine. I say that with honor. So my point being is I was wrong. It didn’t produce 400,000. It produced over a million ounces. And that stock went from $1 to over $65 a share in four bucks. And guess what it was in Australia, an old mine that everybody forgot about. Doug forester good friend came in the office, I was fortunate enough to have the first meeting that they ever had with everyone, I saw that they had brought modern ideas with modern technology to an old producing acid that was de risked. And it ripped 65 fold in less than four years. You don’t need to go to the moon to get those types of returns. And it wasn’t this Jr with a, you know, a promoter wearing a flashy suit. That’s unblemished success. It was done by Doug forester who’s got a pattern of every 10 years find he’s a brilliant geologist, who has a pattern of every 1015 years finding a brilliant deposit. That’s what you want to follow. You don’t need to go look at the major takeouts new crest and Newmont. Look what that’s what why What was that all about? You know, why did Newcrest take out my good friend, Bob Quartermaine. Project in BC and pretium because it was built and producing de risked. They’re not buying out the things in Africa, they’re not buying out the things in Argentina. So the big companies Why is Glencore sniffing around tech, which is Canada’s largest diversified minor, because they want to be in Canada. You’re seeing it already.
Adam Taggart 19:18
So that’s, that’s really interesting. And there’s a couple of things wrapped up in that I want to talk in just a second with you about your origins, which your career origins, which we’re, I believe in fracking, right, which is doing exactly what you were just saying, which was taking new technologies. Can we not have fracking super new, but I think you took the latest applications of fracking technology to older deposits, and then, you know, got them to produce again. But, you know, the natural resources, investing space is very challenging for the average investor to invest in because there’s so many things that you know, that go into assessing the potentiality of a particular your particular play. And what I’ve encouraged people to do going forward is, you know, in most cases, find an analyst. And your job is to try to find the best analyst that assesses these in the way that you think is going to maximize success and follow their lead, as opposed to trying to cobble together your own individual portfolio, because you just don’t know these companies, way too many risk factors for you as a regular person to wrap your brain around, stay on top of all that type of stuff. You’re basically kind of reinforcing on that in my mind, but you’re also saying, you know, Hey, you, the natural resources, space is famous, everybody wants to get into it, because you can have these dramatic, you know, increases of several multiples in the place that go, right. But you’re saying, You don’t have to go stretch out the crazy risk curve that a lot of these plays are on, right, you don’t have to buy a place in the Congo, and just pray that someone’s going to finally crack how to extract capital out of that country, or they’re probably never right, where you’re saying you can get 65x returns, in certain cases, in some of the safest jurisdictions with the greatest rule of law with the most experienced management teams. So why bother with those super risky places, just look for the best of the best. And you may get a still a phenomenal return with a hell of a lot lower risk risk profile
Marin Katusa 21:18
100%. And if I may take it a step further. We do a lot of analysts, I would be careful, there spread sheet jockeys, and they’re paid by the bank that gets the revenue from the broker, the bankers and the brokers who sell stuff, going to, you know, kick rocks, I know so many of these analysts, but they’ve never built the mind, they actually have never financed the mind. They never actually invest in what they’re telling you to write a check for. So I will guarantee you that someone who’s invested, let’s say, to lead order of a financing like myself, I lay there, if it’s not going well, in the middle of the night, I’m thinking about it versus an analyst who went there, that the company paid for a business class ticket, not wined and dined got to see everything that was polished and nice, and wrote it up. And it’s down, because he’s got no skin in the game. So I think to take it even a step further, is follow the winners, the patterns of success, the franchise players, there’s individuals, and here’s the thing, you’re not going to have a portfolio of 20 stocks. Literally, if you ask anyone in the sector, whether they like me or not, which I couldn’t give a shit, this business isn’t about having friends, it’s about having something of value to bring to your customers, as one of the largest financiers of this game, and I’ve raised more money than most of the banks combined. I own two gold companies to do okay, and I’m very bullish on gold. I am easily one of the largest financiers in uranium. And right now I own one uranium stock. Okay, and there’s like 500 of them. And some of these management teams I literally tried to avoid, because I think I catch something called an FTD from them a financially transmitted disease. And so many of these people in this industry are doing too many things, and are stretched thin. And, you know, I just sit there, these management teams who are paying themselves insane amounts, picking peer groups, who the whole industry needs a reset. And all you can do is the Atlas Shrugged concept, don’t engage with those type of management teams stay away from the FTD ears, the Rounders who are always hanging around, you know, so the reason Adam, to be totally frank, why I’ve kind of stopped and pulled away from doing a lot of the media in the industry is there’s just not that much to talk about. Right. And, you know, a lot of these management teams, like I said, probably couldn’t get a job washing cars in a used car dealership. So be very careful where you’re putting your money and specifically, even the brokerage firms. You You really believe there’s a China wall or the brokers and bankers investment bankers who bring in the cash aren’t talking to the analysts who get paid by that revenue. It’s the biggest scam in the industry. And then what type of repercussions are there for that?
Adam Taggart 24:30
Yeah, I started my career in Wall Street. I know that that Chinese wall is more like Swiss cheese. Alright, so that’s very, very useful. Thank you for that perspective, especially coming from somebody who’s you know, the other day you get a lot of skin in the game Marin, right. So you know, it’s not just a reputation or an opinion that you’re putting at risk. It’s actual, your personal net worth. Let me ask you this then. So you’re bullish on things like carbon credits Randy gold, copper, I know lithiums on that list too. What are the, at a high level? You know, what are the things that you look at? So you obviously, it’s an extremely considered decision for you to put your money. And like you said, you’re only going into one or two plays in each of these sectors? Can you just talk a little bit about kind of what are some of the commonalities that you look for that help you get to a green light to say, Alright, I’m gonna make capital,
Marin Katusa 25:26
you mentioned lithium, let’s take lithium, lithium is one of the most abundant elements on the planet, right? You look at it, but it’s about refining and processing. And I’ve invested what his in my history, three uranium stories. And they’ve all been successful, because you follow this pattern, this process, and I’m very like, it’s all on my website, my whole track record, everything’s there. And trust me, if there’s a mistake to make, this guy’s made it right. And it’s hit my portfolio, but you rebound and you learn and you make try not to make the same mistakes twice. But you look at lithium, I’ve always stated this, the government’s are going to change the game. You look at what Chile is just turning to the lithium sector. That is a game changer, in a bad way.
Adam Taggart 26:10
Real quick, can you just summarize, for the folks that
Marin Katusa 26:13
aren’t aware, he said, basically, any new contracts, basically, it’s not into production and pre existing isn’t grandfather, we have to restructure the new government take where the government companies gonna get at least 50% of the asset. And that’s where it starts. And then you know, what governments do, hey, politicians are really successful at one thing, taking your money, right, that’s the one thing that you can guarantee it. So that game is be very careful. Now, a lot of the hard rock stuff that has to go to China, because China, just like in the rare earths and lithium, that’s where the processing and refining is. Well, just like fracking changed the world. Specifically in America, it really had its impact. The clays, the lithium clays is a game changer for the lithium industry. And Elon Musk is saying it, frankly, also, it’s about having a large deposit. That’s very key big lead deposits. Because the big companies want to be able to rely on something for many decades, like a true industry, long term stable, safe supply, where they can not rely on shipping it to China, get it refined, and all the games that China’s going to play. So that’s a perfect aspect. And then you can kind of start avoiding all the noise in the sector. Keep it simple, the processing, the metallurgy, there’s great gold deposits out there. But you know, if it’s preg robbing or different aspects that you’re going to have low recoveries, you know, everything can be solved, but your costs go up significantly higher. So I like how I got into fracking really early. Rick, who’s a close friend, I’ll use him as an example. He was focusing on conventional, because that’s what he knew. And that’s what he was doing for 30 years. And he was very successful at it. And he had his team of experts doing that. And I sat there at the table with Rick going, I have no advantage here. I cannot beat him. But my geology prof at university was one of the industry leaders in unconventional shales. So I went to him and said, Hey, I can’t compete with the conventional guys. But I know nothing anyways, because I was just young. This was only going almost 20 years ago. Unconventional is conventional to me, if that makes sense. Sure. So you went, Yeah. And we went put together a team. And for a fraction of the cost. We were picking up acreage for less than 25 cents a hectare? Well, the reason we didn’t do it, just to give you an example, and this is recorded as time very close friend of mine who had all these projects in Texas, I think we got this isn’t 2005 or six, it was 100 bucks an acre. And I said, Man, I just don’t have the cash to do that. Three years later, is going for $40,000 an acre. That’s okay, we did really well with Cuadrilla, which was the European shale concept. So my point being is is you can go with these new technologies that are proven where you have an advantage, and you’re kind of the facilitator because by the time I figured it out, unconventional, it would have been the same time to go on as conventional but unconventional today’s conventional. And I didn’t have to compete with guys who had 30 years of experience in the sector, if that makes sense. So that was how I you know,
Adam Taggart 29:41
that’s how you gain your advantage and then you know, executed against it. Also your timing was phenomenal. Right? Which is that was really kind of the start of the shale revolution. Right? I mean, you weren’t you turned out to be an early player in it, which is phenomenal. All right. So yeah, We’ve talked a little bit about this, but I’m trying to think which which one to go to here first, maybe maybe I’ll go to the negative first, then go to the positive. So we’ve talked about the rising cost of capital, which you said is, you know, basically a deflationary gravitational force in the commodity space right now. The impact of of that additional cost of capital, you know, it hurts projects themselves. But it also it does hurt countries too, right. I mean, there’s the interest on the national debt that will be getting impacted by that. I’m making my way to while you’re talking more about being bullish jurisdictions like America, like Canada. Any other countries you want to add to that list? You mentioned Australia earlier. But real quick, I know, you’ve sort of tweeted out some warnings about at least having to take into account interest on national debt in terms of the countries that you’re looking at. Anything, anything you want to expound on there.
Marin Katusa 30:58
I think most of the let’s take Canada. Example. I’m Canadian, born and raised. Our finance minister can’t even answer a simple question about the debt. So the point being is that the decisions they’re making today, they’re not even aware of the issues and it takes years for that to work through the system. It’s it’s the thing that the the tax payers have to deal with. It’s the issue that the corporations, but will the politicians do the right thing, they’re just going to say whatever they think will take them to keep their jobs to they can, you know, pretend and dress up and you know, be the posers that they are. But when it comes to state levels, the fact of the matter is, is you can have operating gold mines, in democratic states like California. And I’ll give you an example Ross Beatty and I, I was the second largest shareholder of Equinox at the time. And he had this idea, I said, I will back him together, we finance it. And it was when gold was $1,150 an ounce we bought in producing gold mined from a company that was stuck with too much debt. And I remember Ross and I’m walking down the street and I go imagine when gold gets to 1250 Cash Machine this will be did I think it would get to 1900? Sure, I wrote that it will eventually get there. But my point being is not all gold. When I say I’m very bullish on America, there’s certain areas that I won’t go to invest like it’s a big place. But there’s places like South Dakota that are open for business. And people say South Dakota, like what Deadwood, lead, oh damn rights, people forget about Homestake, I’ll give you a perfect example, Adam Homestake produced over 40 million ounces of gold built a Hearst empire. And it was sitting there for 25 years, with not one person going into the data room. So me, Dr. Bob Quartermaine, when everybody was at home, you know, day trading, and in April of 2020, when there’s no commercial airplanes allowed, we had the idea to take a private plane, fly to South Dakota, pick up this asset that nobody was focusing on and bring modern technology and bring it back to life. Same thing in Utah, which is the highest grade producing Goldmine, so you stick with the winners that know what they’re doing. A guy like Bob Quartermaine, has done only three companies in his life and has sold each one for multibillion dollars. Check people number one is the resource is the endowment there is the historical production. And can you bring an advantage to it? Can you bring modern technology to enhance this and unlock the value check? Does the government want you there? Do they need the jobs? Do they want the jobs or is this an area that wants tourism? Right? And things are cyclical so you gotta go there. Well, South Dakota and Utah. You know, someone made a comment to me about it, where you’re gonna go work with Mormons. Dam rights, I want to work with the Mormons. I went to site. I’m a pretty big guy. I’m 200 plus pounds, six foot one. I was the smallest guy These are core bred tough Americans. No earrings no long hair LTI is little things out I’m like last time incidences super low, because they they take care of it. They don’t come hungover. And look, I’m a religious when it comes to an investment or a political but you had this you know there was a famous person I brought who’s an investor and I said the guy was like, Can I please take a picture of you? I’m like, Oh, you’re going to show your buddies at the bar. He goes, I don’t go to a bar. We don’t drink. That was you know, we’re so as people making fun of the Mormons ongoing that’s an asset. These are young. We’re talking about not 60 year olds, the average age at the mind was a late 20s to early 30s. They can do things themselves. It’s not using consultants, those are the little variables. You know, you go to a site, Is it messy? Do you see cups everywhere? Is it scattered? LTI? is where are they to the industry? Where’s where are they on the cost curve? All these little factors that you pick up little tricks like is the cut off grade, one and a half times its average cruising graders three times, you know, what’s its met recovery, all these little factors. And the reality is, is you know that all governments are going to try to steal more, but at least the ones with rule of law are confined to how much they can steal from you.
Adam Taggart 35:33
All right, that is great. And if you don’t mind, I’m just gonna dial through that list one more time, just to make sure that folks who want to take notes kind of have it. Would you say some of the things that you see as most important or one having a large deposit? Right, so you’re already receiving the the uncertainty of had gotten explore? We just don’t know how much is there? Right. In most cases, you’re looking for places that have had tremendous proven large deposits. Take like the mind state consultant in South Dakota, right. People quality management, I’m hearing you say is like super premium importance.
Marin Katusa 36:13
Perfect One, just look at their cost base. Here’s a perfect question. Look at their invested cost base, their actual dollars, versus what their compensation is. Okay. So many of these management teams are taking 10 times more in compensation salaries and bonuses. Why the hell should you have a bonus your stocks down 75%, and you’re still not in production? Well, you said you would do you suck, you should be embarrassed to get out of bed and show up to work you should be the exchange should say, you know, the exchange should have a criteria of who should be running these companies. But that’s a side issue. You look at their cost base. So Adam, if their cost base is $1, and they’re telling you to buy it at 10. Are you aligned? No. But you’re in a situation where their cost base is $2. And you can buy it at $1. Ah, and they have no other deals, and they’ve put 1020 $30 million into this deal. And it’s focused factor and you know, they’ve done this time in and time out on that type of asset. That’s a check on skin in the game.
Adam Taggart 37:17
That is a great example. Thank you. That is perfect. Yeah, look for the management team that has a intrinsically important priority to get the price of the company above yours, just for them to break even on it. Right. No bigger tractor pole for success than that. Right. Okay, so third is can you bring advantage to the deposit with new technologies? We’ve talked a lot about that already. But but that’s a key one in terms of your approach. Fourth, is just the government wants you there. Right.
Marin Katusa 37:46
And, and, you know, or the community or the community.
Adam Taggart 37:49
Right. Alright, government and community. And, you know, I put rule of law into that as well, right? You know, is it a government that you can trust more or less to abide by what it says it’s going to do, right? And then last is labor quality, right, which also goes to the community. But you know, do you have access to labor that you can depend on and you gave a great example of some of the things to look for,
Marin Katusa 38:08
and infrastructure, I call it OPM, other people’s money. So there’s a deposit that we’ve learned, it’s on my website, where it would cost $500 million to build the infrastructure that is already there. And it’s already been drilled out. And we got it for a fraction of that price. That’s a good start. That’s all cost that you would have to pay to build. So look for those things.
Adam Taggart 38:32
Okay, great. So let’s dig into that for a second. So let’s let’s take a homestead comes to homestead. Great. Let’s take Homestake it was a mine that produced very well, decades ago, got mothballed because the technology at the time couldn’t get to what was left? How do you go about being able to really determine how much is left to play out in this module.
Marin Katusa 38:54
So Adam, that is a key aspect. It didn’t shut down because the technology wasn’t there to process it. It shut down because the two things the mind was producing for like 80 years at that point. And they didn’t invest into where they needed to go because the management team came in and went and merged with the company to build a big asset in Australia. The price of gold at that time went down to below I think it was $230 an ounce. And they just thought that there was more upside than investing the capital required at that time to develop it out. But here’s the beauty of it. As that mines shut down. The exploring guys drilled a hole, which was a barnburner that showed a whole new deposit. But because the company evolved, you know, I think it was Charlie Munger who said you want to invest in a business that is so successful that even an idiot can run it because eventually they will are idiots took over and the bankers and the CFOs the the accounting guys and it was based off of new metrics for bonuses and the mark It got tired of this old story. It happens all the time. Dennis Washington, one of the wealthiest people in America, definitely one of the richest in Montana, bought the Butte Mine for $13 million, often Newmont which was one of the world’s largest producers of copper, because the board decided, while the bankers have told us our stock is this is in the late 80s. The bankers said that our stocks underperforming because investors don’t know if we’re a gold company or a copper company. So we’re going to sell all our copper assets. Now Dennis, Washington at the time purchased that not for its copper, he purchased it for the hangers because he had a huge construction company and he’s like, holy crap, it cost me $30 million to build this infrastructure. I can buy it for 13. But the fact of the matter is, a few years later, the old mine manager finally gets to meet Dennis Washington, and Butte Mine produces for the family $3 million of free cash flow in their pocket a day. So when you have these idiots make these decisions, it’s a cyclical market. And if you’re an alligator, I talked about an alligator investing why an alligator can go a year or two without eating if you control its metabolism, but it’s right there, and you don’t know that it’s paying attention. That’s what we did with what we did in Utah. That’s what I did with Cuadrilla. I’ve done it with Copper Mountain, I’ve done it so many times where you don’t need to be the smartest guy in the room. But you have to do your homework and align yourself with people with the same interests who have skill sets that you don’t have. And I’m not interested in investing in science projects, that does mean that I’ll miss some unexpected crazy drillhole. But those are so rare, they are so rare, it’s easier just to stick to a process that works.
Adam Taggart 41:45
So back to your process for a second. So I’m kind of like reminded of Moneyball. Right? You know, Michael Lewis is Moneyball, where, you know, all of a sudden, people realize there was a better way to manage a baseball team, right? You’ve got this process. So to me, you’re sort of like the new Billy Beane of how to invest in, in natural resource plays. A, how many other people are kind of being in a follow your process, right copying your book, because it works so well. And be how many of these kind of forgotten plays are out there like is it you know, there are only a few, and it just takes a ton of work to find a couple that are out there, and then they’ll be gone, or there are a bunch and there’s just you know, it’s gonna take people, a lot of
Marin Katusa 42:37
worlds a very big place. So what I spent a lot of time was looking at companies, closure departments, you know, there’s big companies that had a focus, they switched. And they have this closure department that has been sitting there for 2530 years, some of the most successful stories in the resource sector globally, are all deals that the majors just put in their closure department. So there’s a bunch of them. And there’s a lot of smart guys in the industry. But there’s nowhere near as many smart guys as there are companies looking for that capital. If you take the whole gold sector, like the whole gold sector, from the streamers like Franco Nevada, Wheaton precious to Beric, and Newmont and all of the guys and then all the mid tier producers, that developers and the juniors who are looking for a dream, just the amount that like Facebook moved up in one day is greater than the whole sector combined. It is like such a small and insignificant factor, that the big money isn’t flowing into the sector because of passive management. passive management has these metrics. This is why like five companies make up 25% of the s&p because they don’t care. Like that’s the it’s an algorithm. It’s a it’s passive. It’s an ETF. That’s just the way
Adam Taggart 43:52
it’s just yeah, it’s just an algo. But but for
Marin Katusa 43:55
some quick metrics, first thing I do in a PowerPoint here, you get this whole thing. I don’t need a management team, with shiny shoes, walking into my office looking for money for me, telling me about the gold sector. So right off the bat, okay, flip through that flip through that flip through. I look at the management team, okay. And the first thing any management team when they don’t show a simple metric, what percentage do you own? What is your dollar invested? And where’s the price? Because they don’t want you to know that. But a guy like Ross Beatty, who book is a very close friend of mine we’ve we’ve had differences we we been on other sides of deals, we’ve been on the same sides. So this is what I’m trying when you said how many other there’s lots of guys, I’ve been on the same side as the London’s and opposite side of London. So we’re all in it, to take it and keep it you know, there is no okay, you take the score this time I’ll get the next one. That’s not how it works. We’re all financial predators looking for the kill. And he will tell you, this is how much dollars I’ve invested in and he’s down on his investment by like 35 40% just that much trick that tells you, he’s probably got a good chance of making this work. Those are the type of things that you can quickly assess. So even though, and look, it’s an aging industry to Adam, I’ve had some very close friends, who I’ve worked with for 20 years pass away, and they passed away quickly. And this is the thing that, you know, if you’re a young person in university, you probably don’t want to spend a year in the bush, like, my wife’s a geologist. And then she went and did her MBA in finance, she spent a year living in the bush, right, that takes a personal toll. There’s not many other, you know, the industry is trying to bring in women and diversity, but it’s going to struggle to do so. So if you look at the board’s most of the women are either on the accounting or legal side. So the industry has to do a better job from the grassroots from an educational standpoint, but most of the education is anti mining on a start. So you have to look at what’s going on from that aspect. So a lot of things are working against mining. And again, the industry about 20 years ago, went to where the gold is, it was a very famous saying of the founder of Beric, a guy named Peter monk, he was one of the legends in the business, he said, Look, we’re going to these places, because that’s where the gold is. Now, I like to counter that and said, Well, if there is a God, God created the gold, but the devil took it and spread it around. And to fuck with everyone, he put it in places that are going to screw with people, right? So that’s where you see things like what’s going on in the Congo. And in all these places like Argentina, which has incredible endowment of minerals, the problem is the government. So you have to be aware, look at Russia. Russia has some amazing copper assets. They have incredible endowment. Robert Friedland went there, left with his tail between his legs. Same thing with Ross Beatty, yet many guys have gone to try to make Russia when the curtain fell to try to make it work. What advantage does anyone in the West have going into a country like Russia? Are you insane? Or Kazakhstan? Or it was Becca Stan or any of the stones? Or anywhere in Africa? Come on, guys. Now if it’s, you know, there could be exceptions, if they’re truly like a family who’s there, they have businesses and experience in the network and partners. Okay, I’m not painting at all a bush. But just a little bit of common sense. And logic will save your portfolio to think about it, do your portfolio favor de risking.
Adam Taggart 47:27
All right, well, I’m loving all this great insider perspective that you’re providing here, Marin, for the person who’s watching this, who’s an average investor, who believes the story and the promise of the commodity space. And by the way, we haven’t talked about your your famous commodity chart of commodity prices versus the s&p, but we’ll talk about that in a second. I think you’re giving them really good heart here. I mean, you’re giving them you know, what to look for, in terms of what you think makes a successful deal, you’re telling them they don’t have to stretch too far out on the risk curve in terms of jurisdiction, or in terms of, you know, they don’t have to go for the Explore, that’s promising. They’re gonna find something big tomorrow, right, they can look for the existing deposits and stuff like that. Now you are a part of your success, given the type of investor you are, and there are very few investors like you out there, forgetting about your experience for a second, you know, you’re coming in, and you’re you’re providing early big capital to these plays. You’re oftentimes, you know, employing specialists to help you go on site and really figure out what’s going on the average person who’s going to be making investments from their, you know, their armchair. Are there? Is there enough opportunity in these publicly traded stocks? As long as they you know, look for the things you’ve done, maybe maybe really searched for a good analyst who has a similar approach and a good track record? Is there still enough meat on the bone there for them? Or is the value really captured by people like you who can get in early? And you know,
Marin Katusa 49:01
every chair? Oh, yeah. So find someone that you can invest in at the same time at the same price. So the skin in the game is equal? That’s the key part. The other part is, what is your timeframe? What is your patients a big thing I see. I’ll use my doctor friend, Dr. B. I use him as a contrarian indicator. And this will be a shock to him to hear, but super smart, busy saving people’s lives. He’s tired when he gets home that he has a wife and kids and he’s gotten just the realities of life. He doesn’t have the time to do it. But you know, he talks to other doctors who, you know, have high income, but really struggling to build that true dynastic net worth, but they’re the ones that you think should have the ability to do that. But because they don’t have the time to do it. What I see the biggest mistake from what I’d call people trying to get into the game is I got 100 grand, and I want to deploy it now, or I’ve got 50 grounder I got a million and a half and then they get aggressive. Just because you want to invest and you’re ready and your brokerage account is set up and you have cash. That does not mean it’s the right time to set up. So I’ve tried to create Okay, is it a speculation? Or is it an investment? Now if it’s a speculation, never I don’t care how good of a story is, these are rules that we put in, never by more than 5% of your overall let’s say you want to put 100 grand Adam toward a resource stock, the resource sector sorry, never put more than 5% into any one speculation. And never put more than 10% of your resource portfolio in any one investment. Number one, number two, never buy your whole allocation today. Because you’re you got a hard on for this stock and you want to buy it today. Buy it and for tranches. We have a 1234 tranche because guess what, Mr. Market will give you many opportunities. So you got to be patient. I talked a lot about, you know, some of the big energy stories I’ll use the one that I wrote about in my book Bucha became Altera, when it was $20. A stock. I said this was insane. It was Ross Beatty stock, and maybe was my ignorance or my Slavic roots to not understand proper etiquette. But he was on a panel, I was the moderator. And someone said, Well, what do you think of altaira I go, Holy crap, that thing is priced to perfection. They haven’t even built a single thing that they’re going to do, but it’s priced in because it’s Ross. And because the sector is hot, and they finance that is exciting. And 2009. And I go this thing is gonna go down for at least 50 to 75%. And then when he hits the tax losses, and then every operation has what I call it’s kinks, where you got to, you know, you got to work the process out. And he looked behind, and he was shocked, because I guess it was the first time that someone would call out a legend in the industry. And I didn’t mean it to be rude. Someone asked me a question. I was just very honest. That was in oh nine. And by 2015, I ended up becoming the second largest shareholder of that company. And then we ended up selling it to a major company, my subscribers for the whole journey. And it took me a long time to build that position. I would tell people, I’ve just bought my first tranche at this price. And guess what, sometimes your second and third tranche are going to be way lower than your first tranche or higher, it depends on what the value of the stock is at time. So patients to be waiting. I love private placements. You know, even Rick, if you ask him, I’m the king of what recalls the KATUSA warrant, I’ve probably responsible about two thirds of five year listed tradable warrants on the exchange. I love getting that double kicker, because if I’m right, that warrant pays me twice as much. And my theory is this, you know, if management team get options, and brokers get commissions, why the hell shouldn’t investors who are taking all the risk get paid, at least to have some sort of parity in in payouts because you know, there’s things like glass, Louis and ISIS and all these different supposed to be independent third party who, by the way, get paid by the company, so that independence factors, kind of, but that are trying to equal the play and really bring management teams to like equalize with shareholders, God like these family off like, find a management team who run their public company, like it’s a private family office, a private family business, because that could save you 90% of your research time is just to focus on the good people, you’re probably not going to be able to compete with me on the technical metrics and who to call on a Porphyry deposit and who to call on a VMFS deposit or shale deposit. Look, I have an advantage there. But we all have the ability to just look at the people and the compensation and say, does that make sense? Would a private family run their private dynasty business this way? Hell no. And if it doesn’t make sense, it probably won’t make sense.
Adam Taggart 54:07
All right. Well, that’s great. Well, look, Marin. I think you’ve inspired a lot of people in this conversation. And, you know, I’m gonna guess if they’ve got one. When anxiety about, you know, their ability to do this well is they just don’t have you know, the depths of experience that you have. And if I understand correctly, you do I believe you offer a service that kind of lets people sort of sit over your shoulder and see the decisions you’re making. Is that true?
Marin Katusa 54:39
Yeah. And it’s not for everyone. You know, just buying a membership to a gym. And if you’re not going to use it and read it, it’s not for you. I haven’t had a private placement in almost 18 months. Because if I’m not willing to be the lead order at the same time at the same price as everyone else And I get a lot of complaints about that the alligators like Marin, I signed up for your thing, but I publish, I’ll put up my research with anybody in the industry. But it’s only value to you if you want to pay the price, the do the time, the mental commitment of reading this material. So when I do come up with a private placement, you have all the links, and you have the background information to make the decision at that time. I’ve worked on many private placements for the last 18 months that fell through because of technical reasons or legal reasons. I don’t like lawyers, I think they overcharge and under deliver most accountants, same thing. And I want things where they commit to an exact time of when it’s going to trade on a big lead exchange. Most of the capital is in the US. Most of these companies aren’t Canadian, because it’s just the industry is kind of like saying, Why are tech deals coming out of Silicon Valley? Well, it’s just the way it is. Most of the resource companies are coming out of Canada, but it makes no sense for an American to convert into US dollars. And then list this company on a Canadian exchange that is always going to trade undervalue because the big passive ETF money can’t even buy on that exchange. But here’s the thing, Adam, if it’s a world class deposit, The Beatles never played when they made it. And they were world class, they didn’t play a little dives and things where you couldn’t fit a lot of liquidity like people. In small they go to Madison Square Gardens, the New York Stock Exchange, the NASDAQ. And if you have something world class with usually, world class people find world class deposits and make world class cash flows. It would qualify to list on the New York or the NASDAQ. But here’s the catch. A lot of these companies are Canadian, that means their lawyers are Canadian. They don’t want to let go of that cash cow of legal fees and handed off to an American lawyer. So they have their fingers in there, which means delays and costs. So when I put timelines going, Okay, if you’re not listed by this time, you defer all your fees, and you got to pay a penalty, or Foxconn and you see them going well, we can’t do that some of the lawyers in the business are trying to get a percentage of the capital raised their service provider. Makes no sense. But that’s where the industry is going. Because of the lack of discipline. I’ll take someone with some testicular fortitude to fix things up. And how you do it is don’t fund these jackasses. Right, the deposit is not going to disappear. Just the management will testicular fortitude,
Adam Taggart 57:36
it’s a great way to put it. So if we can just talk real quickly? Well, first question just because you mentioned it is that where the biggest value gain is, historically sort of your investments is when you get them to be able to be listed on the US exchange, and all of a sudden, a lot more capital is able to be able to go into it. Once you
Marin Katusa 57:57
show the you get that listing, and then you show that it has that quality of deposit. Yes. And then once you get like, for example, the Russell 2000, biologist by eight, nine 10%, because they have to regardless of the price. So what we did with our subscribers, I saw that a qualified and I put a KATUSA, free ride on it saying, Hey, I believe that you’re going to see a big passive index come because of the market, they base it off of market cap, that’s it. That’s that one index, it doesn’t care if you’re a lollipop maker, or a security company or a gold company, if you have a market cap, that’s the threshold for that index. And it’s we’re talking about hundreds of billions of dollars of market cap value in that index. Well, why if we’re sitting on a big game, why not reduce your risk, and sell and I think I put it over for 450 Whatever it was a time about a year ago. Let them take some an ID risk. So I let my subscribers out first, then I took that big because I have to I have big positions in these companies. So I also got to worry about the subscribers and myself. So do I sell early? Probably? Is it fine? It’s all about having capital to take advantage of this is an industry that is so capital intensive, do not worry about missing the boat, there’s always going to be a new concept or a new idea or a new venture that needs capital. You just need to be patient. Yeah, I
Adam Taggart 59:20
mean, what I really hear you’re saying sort of again and again and again that I’m sort of intimating from what you’re saying is is look you know time is on your side just wait until the advantages are unfairly you know on your side and then counts them
Marin Katusa 59:35
like Buffett calls it the fat pitch right? And it’s so much easier to do that today when I’m getting 5% in the bank cacheable daily right? You know
Adam Taggart 59:43
and I look at the pain of waiting is less is less now that you’re getting paid exactly
Marin Katusa 59:47
now it’s still painful. It’s not that great but I look at these management team and I go do I want to meet with just something simple like you can just watch a video on YouTube it is easier today Adam than when I started out. It was not that like like And when the younger generation say to me, Oh, well, you had an easy marriage, it’s way harder today. Like, please, now you can just watch a YouTube video, follow your gut, you have that blink theory and go, do I like this person? Right? Like your body will tell you if you trust this guy. And if it’s a no move on to the next one. And when I see these management teams come in, I just watch them I go, do I really want another meeting with this group? There are so many companies out there, there’s so many assets, the world is a big place, that the sector is so vast, don’t just be an a thing. You know, people are. So many people come to me and I go, I subscribe to Nine newsletters, and I’ve got 38 stocks. And what do you think of this company, I’m like, Whoa, 38 stocks, like, I don’t even know 38 phone numbers, I probably don’t even know 30 people’s full names. I never mind the detail to own that type of font. Like I said, I’m like one of the big players in the sector. And I own two gold companies. I own one uranium company, I own two carbon companies. You know, like I’m a pretty disciplined guy. And I always talked about the Brookfield story, during COVID. This was a company that I was writing about for five years. And I said just wait, just wait. Same thing as Purina. But if you can buy these big companies, at true Buffett valuations, you’re gonna get an opportunity to de risk take that opportunity, and collect what I call the infinite dividend when you have no cost base. And these things just pay you yield. That is the perfect portfolio. I’ve always said a perfect portfolio is a bunch of KATUSA free rides with no cost base. And a bunch of warrants that you get for know if they work out, they work out if not big deal. But you don’t need to take the risk just by staying disciplined, you can avoid a lot of the headaches.
Adam Taggart 1:01:55
All right. But I’m trying to wrap this up to be respectful of your time. But you keep just coming up with great comments that make me want to ask you a lot more questions. I’m gonna end it here. But real quick used a couple of terms, I just want to make sure that the viewers here understand what you mean. So you’ve mentioned KATUSA, free rides a couple of times, just explain what that is.
Marin Katusa 1:02:17
Sure, if you buy a stock at one, and it goes to to sell half your cost base plus maybe a little bit more to pay your tax, and then just put it in the set and forget category.
Adam Taggart 1:02:25
Okay, so this is sort of the almost infinite return, like you’ve taken your money out of the game, it’s now just house money you’re playing with and I
Marin Katusa 1:02:32
think in our portfolio, all but three companies are conducive for you, right? So you know, and that doesn’t mean I won’t buy back into a conducive for you, right? It just means that I want to reduce my and I do believe across the board, we’re gonna see more financial pain in all companies, the margins, the sales, you look at companies, even from 3am to the s&p 500 categories, you’re seeing more margin compression, the economy is slowing, interest rates are coming up. It’s all going to just play out and you have time. Time is your ally.
Adam Taggart 1:03:09
All right, great. And then real quick, you mentioned warrants, which people have heard in this channel a couple of times, but in specifically in the case of these natural resource plays, just real quick definition of what those do for you and why they interest you.
Marin Katusa 1:03:22
Sure. So if you do a financing in a public company, you get a unit a unit, let’s just hypothetically, say you buy a stock for $5 a unit. And with that you have the right, that comes in, I do what’s called a full five year warrant, that’s the maximum the exchange will approve a five year listed tradable warrant that gives you the right, but not the requirement to buy a stock later at 750. I’m just using numbers as an example. But then what I’ve done is really what I brought to the sector was okay, that’s great. But learning the ropes, I realized that some of these big investors would lean on the stock and there was a thing, blow your shares, ride your warrants. So I inverted that by saying, wait a second, what if I could do this? If I listed that warrant has its own equity? So it actually has its own ticker symbol? Right? That ticker symbol. Now? What if there’s funds out there, it’s an option. It’s just like a put or a call because it’s a time based expiry. And what we do then is say, Why do I want to sell the share? If I can get all my money back by selling that warrant, or the share never has that expiry date, and we’ve done it multiple times in the portfolio, so you get a share and a warrant? You get them both listed? And then if you could sell your warrant to reduce the risk of or the cost base of your share, you’re laughing,
Adam Taggart 1:04:52
right? I mean, you basically fund the free ride with with the warrants. Okay, super interesting. So many other questions for you remind me so much of Andrew Carnegie who said, hey, you know, some people, some investors, you know, their advices is put your money in multiple baskets, right to diversify. And he says, no, no, I put my money in one basket. And I just watch that basket really, really closely. You know, you’re looking for super high quality baskets, and just focusing all your attention on them. Alright, well, look, this has been great, Maron, thanks so much for coming, I’m glad this was finally able to happen. And I really look forward to having you back on the program, again, in the future, whenever you want to come on, for folks that have really enjoyed this. And we’d like to learn more about you and your workflow, you and your work, but potentially, you know, perhaps learn more about that service where they can sit on your shoulder and see what trades you’re making, particularly to private placements. Where, where can they go,
Marin Katusa 1:05:50
go to the website, KATUSA, research.com. Everything I’ve ever done from day one is all there on the website, all my articles you can, and the videos and all that stuff. It’s all out there. And like I said, if I’m one of the guys that I think are playing with skin in the game, disclose everything, and doesn’t mean I’m perfect, but I’ll go up against anyone in the industry. And it’s not for everyone, you know, our service is expensive. And I believe it’s rightfully so. And it’s if you have 10 grand or 20 grand to invest in the sector, I’m not your guy, don’t don’t even go there. But if you want to spend the time to invest. And when I like I said, there’s been a year where I’ve done seven private placements, and then I’ve gone 18 months with zero. If you’re someone that needs instant gratification in day trading, I’m not your guy. But if you want to know about technical stuff, like you mentioned that one chart our stuff, but just to give you an example, banks, the research that banks use reproduce our material in their banking material, right? So that kind of gives you an idea of where we are in the industry.
Adam Taggart 1:07:01
All right, super useful for doing that. I thank you so much. And there’s gonna be a lot of people watching here, who are going to be interested in learning more about your services, they’re kind of the busy doctor you described is sort of
Marin Katusa 1:07:14
the bullseye away. I love Dr. B. He’s one of my favorite people.
Adam Taggart 1:07:17
Well, so so a lot of our viewers here are professionals, doctors, lawyers, etc, who are kind of too busy with their real lives, who need to be plugging into somebody who’s doing this full time. But specific to Dr. B. When you talk to him, please thank him for encouraging you to come on the program, and especially thank him for all of us for ensuring that you’re actually here. We owe him a huge debt of gratitude. It’s just been wonderful Maron thanks so much for coming on. Like I said doors open to you anytime you want to come back on in the future. Folks, if you’ve enjoyed this, please do us a favor. Cast your vote of support by hitting the like button, then clicking on the red subscribe button as well as that little bell icon right next to it. It’s just been great, Maron thank you so much.
Marin Katusa 1:07:59
It was my pleasure.
Adam Taggart 1:08:00
Thank you everyone else. Thanks so much for watching.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai