Discover the ultimate strategies for building and protecting your wealth with expert Brandy Maben. Join host Andrew Brill as he welcomes Brandy Maben, a Director with WindRock Wealth Management. Brandy shares her expert insights on building and protecting wealth in today’s volatile market for retirement. This episode is packed with advice on financial planning, investment strategies, and risk management. What are some questions you have about how to properly plan your retirement? Let us know in the comments!
Brandy Maben 0:00 So, the good thing about starting your Roth IRA early and contributing to it right away is there's a five year clock that starts. And as soon as you hit five years of contributions, you're allowed to take out the principal of your funds. You already pay taxes on them. The government isn't holding you accountable for leaving those in there to lock period of time. But yeah, you could take those out and do it for emergency expenses, student loans $10,000 towards a first time home even and there's a lot of benefit to that. Andrew Brill 0:34 Welcome to wealthion. I'm your host Andrew brill. Setting yourself up for success, paying down debt and worrying about retirement can be very stressful. We're going to break it down and give you the tools to alleviate your stress and we'll do that right now. I'd like to welcome back Brandy Maben to Wealthion. Brandy is a director with our partner, Ria Winrock. And she's here to set us all up for success. Brandy, thank you for joining us. Glad to have you back. Brandy Maben 1:05 Thank you, Andrew. Glad to be here. Andrew Brill 1:08 Excellent. I know you have a new article out. And it's a it's geared toward professional people who struggle with, you know, decisions paying back student loans, income, uneven income patterns, tax situations, stuff like that. So let's get right into it. And it's I know, it's geared towards professional people. But really, anyone can follow this advice, couldn't they? Brandy Maben 1:30 They really could. We definitely are directing Nautico more towards high income earners is that's who we tend to work with doctors, lawyers and such, who don't think about planning early on. But you're right, anyone that's coming out of education, or even just starting their careers goes through financial struggles that article covers. Andrew Brill 1:51 So I guess it starts with finding a job and the financial struggles start there. Because a lot of people that are coming out of school, have student loans, and nobody really thinks about that when they come out of you know, come out of school, but how do you how should somebody view everybody? It's like an albatross around the neck. Everybody says, Oh, my God, I have all these student loans. I have a son going to medical school. And he's That's all he's worried about. He's you know, he almost didn't apply because he's worried about how much it's gonna cost. And they said, Look, don't worry about it. We've got the tools that help you out. And how should someone look at their student debt? Brandy Maben 2:25 Right. Yeah, student debt these days is overwhelming more than you and I ever had to go through these kids cost of living and everything is just substantial. So there's a lot of ways you can go through it, you can make sure that as soon as you get out of college, you find the best rate between lenders, you shop, if you will, between brokers, or lenders you find online and you refinance those loans, you can try for a shorter term loan, long term. So instead of a 30, year you go to 15, that might increase the payment in the immediate, but it will shorten that time significantly. And then like you said, your son's going to medical school. If he plans it outright, his first couple of jobs could really be strategic into lowering that debt, with governmental offers that help those loans pay off quicker, such as the public service, loan forgiveness, or National Health Service, corporate corpse, employer repayment plans, they always have assistance as well. So if you strategize correctly, those can be more manageable. Andrew Brill 3:38 How does someone find out about that stuff like the you know, the programs that you just mentioned? I clearly didn't know about them, but they're they exist. So how does someone go about finding those things to lower to try and actually lower their burden. Brandy Maben 3:51 It's always smart to go with a financial professional, I mean, windrock, we always provide this holistic advice and approach to your finances. And when young professionals need advice, it covers these topics immediately, we source out while you're alone is how much it is compared to not only our own clients, but national averages. And then we can go in the direction of helping them what their best strategy is. We have a family of doctors right now that the students, the two of them, have parents of doctors, they got married, the parents didn't even have these offers that we have today. So both of these young doctors went into the public service industry. They are going to commit 10 years into these industries to help their student loans significantly get reduced in that time period. They're going to work on what their private practice is going to look like. Because optimally they want their own private practice that's going to be where the significant income can be you in their careers. Andrew Brill 4:59 What about shortening the life of a loan? Let's say you have an interest rate, whatever it is, you're happy with your interest rate, is there a way to shorten the life of that loan other than just paying it off outright, which a lot of people just don't have that cash? Brandy Maben 5:12 Right. Exactly. Well, bi weekly payments is one of my most favorite strategies with loans, because it does increase your payment by one payment a year, it basically makes you have 26 payments throughout the year doing it every 14 days, instead of once a month, or every, every calculated amount that the loan officer wanted you to do. That will make you pay at least one, one payment more a year, and then it it really significantly drops it. If you look at a mortgage, if you do that at the start of a 30 year mortgage, you could reduce your years on that loan to 24 to 26 years, depending on how much you pay forward. So it can be in small increments like that. Andrew Brill 5:57 Are there strategies to paying off? I you know, I know that we you talk about making extra payments? Are there other programs to lower your debt burden? Brandy Maben 6:10 Yeah, I would say those three that we already talked about are really significant. And then the early payments, you can sign up for bi weekly payments with any loan you have, and they help do it automatically for you. So it's like auto pay. So there's, there's a lot of options there. And I think seeking advice from a financial advisor is your best route to get those setup. Andrew Brill 6:32 You talk about an opportunity cost of paying down the loan sooner, as opposed to maybe putting stuff. Look, when you're getting out of school, the last thing we think about is the future and retirement because we're so far we you know, you come out of school, you're 40 years old, 35 years away from retirement, not something we think of, but there is an opportunity cost to paying off that loan sooner, as opposed to putting money away for the long term. Brandy Maben 7:00 Of course, so opportunity cost just tries to make that balance between paying off debt and setting yourself up for success. And I think people see those contribution limits at $7,000 for a Roth IRA, and they think they have to fulfill that when in reality, if you put $100 in if you put $1,000 in a year, the compound interest will be significant. If you did that for five years compared to waiting for five years, it will offset some of that debt you're paying. And make sure that you're putting yourself in a really good position on both fronts. Andrew Brill 7:39 We'll get to the Roth IRA, because that's one of it's one of my favorite topics. And I think that that's an awesome vehicle. But tax consequences to student loans. Talk a little bit about that, because there is a way to save a little bit of money on your taxes with a student loan as well. Brandy Maben 7:54 Correct and you can actually deduct some of that interest as long as the student loan was taken out and use fully for that educational cost. And your salary is below a certain threshold that changes every year, you can take sometimes up to $2,500 of a deduction into your taxes, which early in your career, that's a significant amount. Andrew Brill 8:19 Right. So there are definitely advantages to student loans. Obviously, you're able to go to school, but also disadvantage. But look, I think that the bottom line is that people have to take care of or take advantage of all the opportunities given to them, whether it be interest rates, whether it be tax advantages, whether it be that opportunity costs, say look, you know what, maybe maybe I hang on to that loan, because it's a low interest rate, because I'm a I was a student, but I put a little money into my retirement. Right? Brandy Maben 8:47 Right. Exactly. And if you're if you're investing correctly, and you can arbitrage that opportunity cost of investing early, and gaining eight to 15%, depending on your financial advisor is really going to outweigh those student loan costs of three to 6%. Those usually charge. Andrew Brill 9:06 So let's talk about retirement and a little bit. The last thing someone thinks about when they get out of school, what are the things where do we start? What do we think about when, I just graduated college, medical school, whatever it is law school, and I get my first job? What about what what should I be thinking about when it comes to retirement? Brandy Maben 9:26 Well, again, your financial advisor should be able to lay out a plan for you. And I think a lot of young professionals look two feet in front of them instead of 50 years down the road. And then backtracking from there. So what are the goals? What do you want out of a longtime career? what's the end game? Do you ever want to retire? Is your career your life or do you want to travel the world at the age of 65? What's that going to cost you in dollar amount at that point and then scale back step by step. Okay, what does that amount look like at 55? What does it look like at 45? How much do I need to save today to get to that point, and then you can break it down and say, okay, when I'm in my early 50s, I need to be sick, saving a significant amount of wealth on an annual basis. So my goal is, let's say you're a doctor, let's take 10 years and make sure I'm making moderate income, but I'm paying off my loans significantly with all of these student reduction plans, these loan reduction plans, and then after that, I'll go private practice where I can actually make a significantly amount more money and put it towards retirement. So again, it's a whole setup plan that you want to do. I also think making sure you have a diversity of retirement plans is really crucial. It's obviously more flexible. If you're in private practice, or you're your own entrepreneur, there's a lot more advantages to retirement plans and saving opportunities. If you are your own boss, or the boss in general, corporate wise, you have a little bit more of a handcuff, they're usually they offer 401k, maybe 403. B, a lot of government entities offer for 50 sevens, which can be really beneficial, because those don't have a 10% penalty like these other ones. That means say this doctor we're talking about that takes 10 years and then goes into private practice, if they'd been saving in a 457, they could technically use that money as transitional funds to get their private practice going, while also contributing to a 401k. And hopefully, most importantly, starting that Roth IRA, even as a student or an intern, as soon as they have earned income, they should start putting that $100 $1,000 towards it. And if you do this early, if you plan out the big picture, and you have a Roth 401 K and a 457 that really diversifies your contributions. And in the end or withdraw opportunity later on. Andrew Brill 12:07 Is there a big difference between a Roth IRA, excuse me, a Roth 401 K, and a regular 401k? Brandy Maben 12:14 The amount you can contribute is the significant difference. So if you and I open a Charles Schwab Roth IRA, that's not linked to any business, your contribution this year is about $7,000, depending on age, if you go into your private practice, you open a solo 401 K with a Roth component, that amount now equals whatever the annual contribution is of the 401k. So could be $23,000, $22.5 thousand, this year, that you can actually put towards a Roth. And if you own your own company, it's huge savings. If you own your own company, also, you can make a solo 401 K, that means you have no employees, but your spouse can technically be an employee, that would then double the contribution to not only you as an employer putting towards it, but also as an employee. Andrew Brill 13:09 So the Roth 401 K has a limit. But the I'm sorry, the Roth IRA has a limit of 401 k does not? Or is it a higher limit? Brandy Maben 13:18 They both have limits, correct. It's just a higher limit. The government restrictions on a 401 k or a Roth 401 K are just higher on an annual basis. Andrew Brill 13:29 And the tax difference between the two, I think is significant unless I'm incorrect. Brandy Maben 13:36 No, you're right. So on a 401k, it's just deferred. So you pay the taxes later, when you withdraw the money, a Roth IRA or a Roth 401 K, you pay the taxes initially, but then later on after it's grown, you pay no tax implication on that. Which means all of these high income earners that wind rock works with, they actually probably going to make more money in their later years, if not their highest income could be in the last years of their life where they're taking out so much money that they saved. We don't know where taxes are gonna go at this point. I think everyone is afraid about that, right? That Texas could be huge by the time we're all retired and you don't want to pay taxes then. And if you have to with some of your 401k At least you have your Roth retirement and your 401k to split the difference. And if you're taking half of your withdrawals from a deferred account, and half from what you already paid taxes on your tax mitigation is really strategic and smart at that point. Andrew Brill 14:43 Is there any benefit, Brandy, to rolling my 401 k into a Roth IRA and paying the tax because obviously when you take when you when you take it out, you'd have to pay the tax on taking the money out of your 401 K but you still you can make that $7,000 contribution to your Roth, and let's say you make the $23,000 contribution to your, your 401 K, you then roll it over, you're really you're paying the 40% or 50% tax, but you're getting a much bigger tax benefit down the road. Brandy Maben 15:16 Correct. Yeah, that's all right. So a lot of times we describe this as a mega Roth conversion. And you can either do this annually, like you just said, on a backdoor Roth situation, you can take what you already have in your IRA and 401k, and contribute to your Roth immediately with that 7000 and pay the difference of tax. Or you could take, let's say, you have $20,000, you want to move over, you can just do that on an annual basis, pay the taxes of that year, and slowly start to move all of it over towards a Roth. Like you said, if you're growing at eight to 15%, in that Roth IRA, that's huge compounded interest that you're never going to have to pay tax on in the end. So we highly encourage mega Roth IRA contributions and conversions. And we do an annual Roth, backdoor Roth every year with our clients. Andrew Brill 16:15 The Roth IRA, the amounts that I've put in, I can actually, after a certain period of time, take them out tax free because I've already been taxed. I put in $7,000, for for five years, I'm now up to 35 grand, can I take that in now that's grown, obviously, there's, there's, you know, there's growth in that Roth IRA, can I now take that principle that I've put in and put it into my student loans and bring that note down? Brandy Maben 16:45 You can. So the good thing about starting your Roth IRA early and contributing to it right away is there's a five year clock that starts and as soon as you hit five years of contributions, you're allowed to take out the principal of your funds, you already pay taxes on them, the government isn't holding you accountable for leaving those in there at a locked period of time. But yeah, you could take those out and do it for emergency expenses, student loans, $10,000, towards a first time home even. And there's a lot of benefit to that. Now, the growth, you can't take out till 59 and a half. But the principal really has an emergency fund wrapper on it for you if you've had it for five years or more. Andrew Brill 17:29 So just to give everybody an idea, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I was reading something that said if if you started investing in a Roth IRA at 20 years old, and just put about 500, but I think was $512 a year, that's it $512 a year. b]By the time you retire, you'd have over a million dollars in your Roth IRA. Brandy Maben 17:50 Right. Compound interest is just magnificent. It's one of the wonders of the world, right. So we definitely want our clients to take advantage of that and make sure that they understand how much a million dollars really is in retirement. Because if you have a million dollars in an account growing, and you only have to withdraw a certain portion of that, there's a significant amount of that you might never even touch. So if there's an income stream coming off that you can live off of, sometimes a million dollars is enough for people to live off of. Andrew Brill 18:26 And it's never too late, right? It's never too late to start one of these things that look, I'm in my 50s I have one, but it's never too late. It's just a matter of how much you have to put in annually that changes. Brandy Maben 18:37 Your're right. And I think it's never too early and it's never too late. Even kids can start Roth IRAs if they're helping mom and dad within their own practice. So, I have two kids, they both have Roth IRAs, and they helped me with a couple of things on my own business that can fund into their Roth. Imagine if we had all started when we were 10 years old, just pennies each year right we'd all be in even more than a million dollars when they retire. Andrew Brill 19:05 You touched on something very interesting there is that your your kids help you out now. People can set themselves up if their employer will allow them as an LLC. Now they have their own company that it's like an average person could actually do this and set themselves up a lot easier. You know, I there are some employers that will say look, if you want to be an independent contractor, obviously, the benefits go away so but that's also a deduction that you can take, you know, on your taxes, but your your contributions are now you know, you can you can hire your kids, let's say okay, you know what, I need you to do this or build this spreadsheet for me when they get a little bit older, but at 1516 years old, you can start them out that soon if you if you set yourself up as an LLC. Brandy Maben 19:54 You can there's a ton of benefits to it and Winrock will always tell you being a sole proprietor letter can be the best thing you ever do in your life. And you're right set up an LLC become your own corporation. If you make enough that could turn into an S corp. And then you start to handle it with a CPA very strategically on how you really should go about all of these strategies. But you could do the solo 401 K with your spouse, you could open the Roth IRA for your kid, there's an array of things you can do that just really start to benefit everybody, you could even call yourself an executive and give yourself an executive bonus plan. And that covers your life insurance for your family as a deductible expense on payroll. So there's just so many options. By doing that, you're right, I think it's really smart. If your company would allow you, and you have other means of benefits. So your spouse has all the benefits. There's no reason not to explore such things. Andrew Brill 20:55 You touched on legacy planning a little bit. And I want to talk a little about that, because I guess when people get to a certain age, they have a certain amount of money put away, but they also want to leave money to their their family. So talk a little about legacy planning with respect to their Roth IRAs and stuff like that. Brandy Maben 21:17 Right.So I think all of us start to think of legacy planning a little too late. And that we never really think of it as we're starting off because of those loan payments, and we need a new job, and we want to make more money. And legacy planning really should be thought of in the forefront of all of your planning. Now, a Roth IRA, like we've talked about a lot already has a lot of benefits. Because as that grows, it might grow significantly enough that you don't even touch all of it. And it always does want to be the retirement account that you pull from last. But if you do wait, and you leave that to your heirs, let's say these doctors and lawyers, again, they make significant amount of money, their whole lifetime, about 15 to 20% of kids growing up in that type of environment, follow in their parents footsteps. And if they're going to do that, when they inherit money, they could be in those that age of 50, where they're at their highest income earning years, and the government has started to put restrictions and rules on these retirement accounts of when you have to take it out. So a regular IRA, a kid has the air has to take out that money within 10 years. That goes the same for a Roth. However, if you have a Roth that you can take the whole lump sum out immediately and not pay tax on it. That person could technically take all that money and start to strategize around their own legacy planning. And it wouldn't have impacted their own high net worth lifestyle that they're going through at that moment. Andrew Brill 22:54 I want to stress that something you said earlier about making sure you talk to your CPA about how to set up certain things that benefit you, whether it be an LLC, an S corp, a C Corp, important that those things because there's tax advantages to all those things, right. There's tax advantages to everything. And it's important that someone seek the you know, a financial advisor is one thing, but they're not a CPA, your CPA would obviously be able to help you and direct you properly. Brandy Maben 23:24 Right. And we work hand in hand with CPAs. They, we can't do half of what we want to strategically without the sign off of their expertise. So s corpse can be a huge advantage to people getting rid of that self employment income of 15.3%. But if it's not done correctly, these retirement accounts could be funded inappropriately, and we could get in trouble with the IRS. So always seek counsel of a CPA at Winrock. We make sure we're in touch with them directly to kind of take you out as the middleman which helps. But always seek that advice. Andrew Brill 24:04 You had mentioned something about executive bonus plans and things that you can actually do if you're set up in one of these things and talk to me a little bit about how that works. And how important that is because it's obviously employee retention. But if you're also an employee, you're going to look for those things. And that might help you find a job and that can also set you up for retirement. Brandy Maben 24:29 Right, exactly. Well, as owners of companies, sole proprietors, you're always trying to bonus your employees so that you can retain them. Like you said, an executive bonus plan really helps retain these retain these employees because you don't have to give it to everybody. So you can make it special for that one person though. One or two executives that you know need a little bit extra. It's not only going to be a cash balance basically in a life insurance that they can withdrawal from later, tax free, mind you, they also get life insurance out of it, which a lot of companies have stopped benefiting employee employees with. And I think everyone seeks life insurance to some level but no one wants to pay for it, it's expensive. It's an annoying bill. This is a way that employers can really benefit their employees by giving them life insurance, the employer gets a tax deduction off it, which is fantastic, because they're just putting it within the payroll as if it's a bonus, then the employee, if they wait long enough, let's say 10 years, they can actually start to pull that money out of the life insurance policy and use it for whatever they need to be their own student loans. It could be for their kids education, it could be medical expenses, it could be for retirement. There's a lot of strategy around those, but it does help the employee and employer. Andrew Brill 25:56 And then you're referring to pulling money out of an insurance about a whole life policy. Again, we don't think about life insurance until we have a life event kid or a marriage or something like that, where you're responsible for somebody else. But if you get out of school and open up a whole life policy, it's a lot cheaper, and you'll only have to pay a certain number of years. But you can benefit from a cash. If you need cash, you can actually borrow from the life insurance policy, or that could be a benefit as well. Brandy Maben 26:27 Absolutely. And I think young professionals with this type of debt we're talking about, really need to look into these because if anything catastrophic were to happen, at least your debt and your family is taken care of with the life insurance. But let's say you never actually need the life insurance, you just start to pull the cash out of that policy later on, when you've accumulated enough that maybe the life insurance isn't as important. So that starts to minimize the death benefit. But again, you get that cash tax free to use for whatever you absolutely need. Andrew Brill 27:03 It's almost like an extra IRA, where you can actually get more money monthly if you needed it or take out a lump sum at some point. Brandy Maben 27:12 Exactly and it just adds to all of those other plans that we've talked about to diversify your cash. You never want all of your eggs in one basket. And this just adds to the strategy more. Andrew Brill 27:24 What is, before I forget, what's a backdoor Roth IRA? Brandy Maben 27:28 A backdoor Roth IRA is someone that is over the limit of contributing directly to a Roth. So we deal with this because none of our clients are in a sector that they can just directly fund it. So what we do is we open an empty IRA, and it has no funding to it so that there's no pro rata taxes, implications. We will fund the IRA with the maximum amount, let's say $7,000, this year, and then we will just roll it right over into their IRA, the Roth IRA. And since you are going to file that as a non deductible contribution with your CPA, you technically already paid the taxes on it, you'll get a 1099 R with your Roth IRA investment statements at the end of the year, that shows you already paid the taxes on it, because it was a non deductible contribution and your Roth is funded. Even if you're in the highest tax bracket. Andrew Brill 28:31 Interesting, so many loopholes and ways to save money and make money and minimize your taxes. I won't say get rid of your tax but minimize your tax burden. Because obviously, you're you're paying your taxes upfront. How important is we're talking about insurance, disability, stuff like that, to make sure that, you know, if God forbid, you had some sort of an accident or were unable to work, a lot of these things are taking care of your student debt, your your, you know, family, stuff like that is taken care of. Brandy Maben 29:04 Right. I think a lot of people think of the ultimate catastrophic effects of dying and they get life insurance. But these doctors, these lawyers, these people that's spend a significant amount of their time and money preparing for their careers, say a brain surgeon even and then something were to happen to their hands and a car accident. And that $2 million dollar your salary is now just wiped clean. They really need to set themselves up early on disability insurance to make sure that that life event is covered. There's a lot of levels of disability insurance, it's really important that your financial advisor and your insurance agent really work together or it might be the same person like we can do that they they title it and they put a clause on it that's own occupation and making sure that it's directly towards your salary And what you do, I always advise these young professionals to to do it very early because it's the premiums are a lot cheaper, it's very cheap to start it off with $50 a month, them knowing what your role is going to be, and keeping that premium low, because you signed up early. If you wait these 10 years through your government forgiveness, loan occupation, and then you start your brain surgery practice or private practice later, that disability insurance policy is going to be skyrocketed compared to what you would have done it as a resident. And it might not even be worth the disability insurance at that point. Now, if you go down a corporate path, and you're in it for 10 years, and you know, you're never gonna go private practice, they might have a disability policy for you that you can drop your own and get on board with theirs and not worry about the premiums anymore. But either way, starting early is going to save you in the end to have that flexibility and option. But it's crucial to have it especially with high income earners that are depending so much on all those years of work to earn as much money as they do. Andrew Brill 31:13 Who directs the money that's in a Roth IRA? Brandy Maben 31:16 Well, it depends if it's under a company, Roth component, then the company has investment strategies on it. Now, your financial advisor like we do when we open people solo 401 case with a Roth component, or we'd direct their backdoor Ross, we actually fund those Ross and invest them ourselves. And we work with certain self directed IRA custodians where we can even get into private practice private placements. So we can do real estate, we can do gold and silver, we can do AI, venture capital and tech companies, we can invest their Roth IRAs and anything across the map, which can be really significant if you're looking at a venture capitalist company that has a four multiple, and your growth on that never asked to pay tax, that it's huge. And that's where we see the advantage. We love alternative investments. We're an advisory group that does market investments, our analysts are absolutely fantastic, and really help us with that. But we get a lot of our energy and excitement from the alternative investments that we provide. That's why we're so headstrong on these Roth IRAs. Andrew Brill 32:29 So there are other benefits, though, to the Roth IRA, if you wanted to buy a house or you were having a child, you can actually take money out of that Roth, couldn't you for those type of things tax free. Brandy Maben 32:43 You could if you're past that five year limit, if it's only your principal, and you're staying within the guidelines that the IRS does have, it really can be a flexible component for anyone, high income earner, someone scraping at the barrel, it's the most flexible Ira you can have. Andrew Brill 33:03 So it behooves you to start early, right? It's, and that's the bottom line, start early, contribute as often as you can, and make sure you hit the thresholds, the $7,000 for your Roth, your 20 something $1,000 for your your 401 K, but definitely seek an advisor like Windrock to help you through and get you the maximum amount that you need to get you to retirement because like we said before, it's you go from student loan to retirement, and it happens a lot faster than you think, doesn't it? Brandy Maben 33:37 It does. And that if you start earlier, retirement can come quicker. Andrew Brill 33:44 I guess that's a benefit, I guess that I never have actually thought of in a you know, there are movements now it's oh, retire when you're 45. I'm well past that. So that hasn't happened yet, but it is definitely possible. Brandy Maben 33:58 Absolutely. Andrew Brill 33:59 Brandy thanks so much. We'll look forward to seeing the article on Winrock.com. And that is the best place to find all of your research, isn't it? Brandy Maben 34:09 Of course, yes. Well, you we have a lot of blogs, a lot of articles up, we do our own research and try to post about as much as we can. So please check out our website and give us a call if we can help you out. Andrew Brill 34:21 And where else can we do? Are you on social media at all? Is there's someplace else? I know you're a big swimmer and a coach and all that stuff. Where else can we find your your your accolades other than Windrock Wealth.com Brandy Maben 34:34 I think LinkedIn is our biggest hub for social media and things like that. We're not on the Instagram and things like that. We research a lot on X. We do a lot of our quick finds and that gets us driven into more exploration but really LinkedIn on all of our senior advisor accounts, you can find our information. Andrew Brill 34:58 And it's windrockwealth. calm and if you can't find them there, go to Wealthion.com and we will send you over to Brandy and Chris and Brett over Winrock Brandy Maben 35:08 Great. Andrew Brill 35:09 Brandy, thanks so much for joining me. I really appreciate it. Thanks for the time. Brandy Maben 35:12 You too, Andrew. Andrew Brill 35:13 That's a wrap on another discussion here on Wealthion, thank you for joining us. If you need help being financially resilient, please head over to Wealthion.com. Sign up for a free no obligation portfolio review with one of our registered investment advisors. And remember to follow us on social media for the latest news and information to help you invest wisely. If you could like him, subscribe to the channel. we'd greatly appreciate it. Don't forget to hit the notification bell so you can find out when we post new videos to the channel. 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